[Pramāṇa](https://indike.org/pramana/) › [Indian literature](https://indike.org/pramana/in) › [Buddhist Literature](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha) › [Taishō Tripiṭaka (Chinese Buddhist canon)](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho) › [大慧普覺禪師語錄](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.1998a) › 24.21 # 大慧普覺禪師語錄 24.21 大慧普覺禪師語錄 24.21 - **Language:** Classical Chinese ### [24.21](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.1998a.24.21) 昔馬祖問亮座主曰：「聞汝大講得經論是否？」曰：「不敢。」祖又問：「將甚麼講？」曰：「將心講。」祖曰：「心如工技兒，意如和技者，又爭解講得經？」曰：「心既講不得，莫是虛空講得否？」祖曰：「却是虛空講得。」亮不肯，拂袖便行。祖遂喚云座主，亮回首，豁然契悟，遂作禮而去，直入西山，別無言語可通消息，直下坐斷凡聖路頭。如今人似有似無，或於師家口頭認得，麥裏有麫飯是米做，便向麥裏米裏求解覓會，須要師家知道我已得這箇道理，生怕師家不知。如此等輩，只認得箇驢前馬後，欲得如亮座主於馬祖一言之下，便亡其所證，不亦難乎？蓋亮公是箇渾鋼打就生鐵鑄成底，故能千了百當，便跳出教乘玄妙窠窟，即時前後際斷，了無一法可作，了不了道理。如今講人纔聞宗師說，却是虛空講得，便向虛空裏東撈西摸，不疑則謗。道明座主亦是講經者，知得那一著決定不在文字語言中，文字語言乃標月指也。念欲求善知識理會這離言說相、離文字相、離心緣相底一著子，故得得來尋妙喜。妙喜憐其至誠，直書此一段公案示之，異日忽然向紙墨文字上，識得教外別傳底消息，方知麥裏無麫飯不是米做。恁麼知得了，便能於講未講時，將一條死蛇弄得來活鱍鱍地，說虛空解講經，虛空不解講經，總是自家屋裏事，教內教外更不作了未了之見。二見既亡，講時即是不講時底，不講時即是講時底，默時說、說時默，大施門開無壅塞，是真語者、實語者、如語者、不誑語者、不妄語者。（咄！）恁麼說話，大似無夢說夢，開眼尿床，恁麼寫底，也好與三十拄杖。雖然如是，但以假名字引導於眾生，亦不妨於講經處理會祖師教外別傳消息。道明但只如此做工夫，但如此講經論不妨。紙已盡，且截斷這一絡索。 > In the past, Mazu asked Lecturer Liang, "I hear that you are very capable of lecturing on the sūtras and treatises; is that so?" Liang said, "I dare not claim so." Mazu asked again, "With what do you lecture?" He replied, "I lecture with the mind." Mazu said, "The mind is like an acrobat, and thought is like a clown; how can they explain and lecture on the sūtras?" Liang said, "If the mind cannot lecture, can empty space lecture?" Mazu said, "Indeed, empty space can lecture." Liang would not accept this, flicked his sleeves, and started to leave. Mazu then called out, "Lecturer!" Liang turned his head, was completely enlightened, and thereupon bowed and departed. He went straight into the Western Mountains, with no further words to send tidings, and directly cut off the path of ordinary and holy. Nowadays people are neither here nor there, or they recognize from a teacher's mouth that 'there is flour in wheat and cooked rice is made of grains,' and then seek understanding and comprehension within the wheat and rice, insisting that the teacher know that they have attained this principle, terrified that the teacher will not know. People of this sort only follow at the donkey's front and the horse's rear; if they wish, like Lecturer Liang, to immediately relinquish their attainments under a single word of Mazu, wouldn't it be difficult? Liang was wrought of solid steel and cast of pig iron, which is why he could achieve complete liberation and immediately leap out of the abstruse burrow of the doctrinal teachings, with the bounds of past and future cut off at once, leaving absolutely not a single phenomenon to be treated as a principle of understanding or not understanding. Today, as soon as lecturers hear an ancestral teacher say 'Indeed, empty space can lecture,' they go rummaging around in empty space; if they do not doubt, they slander. Lecturer Daoming is also an expounder of sūtras who knows that that one matter definitely does not lie within words and letters, and that words and letters are merely fingers pointing to the moon. Wishing to seek a good spiritual friend to comprehend this one matter that is free from the characteristics of speech, free from the characteristics of written words, and free from the characteristics of mental conditioning, he has specifically come to seek Miaoxi. Miaoxi, pitying his utmost sincerity, directly wrote out this gong'an to instruct him: if one day he suddenly recognizes upon paper, ink, words, and letters the tidings of the separate transmission outside the teachings, only then will he know that there is no flour in wheat and that cooked rice is not made of grains. Once you understand in this way, then whether lecturing or not lecturing, you can bring a dead snake to life, vigorously wriggling. To say that empty space can lecture on sūtras or that empty space cannot lecture on sūtras are both matters within one's own house; within or outside the teachings, one no longer forms views of complete or incomplete. When these two views have vanished, when lecturing it is just when not lecturing; when not lecturing it is just when lecturing; speaking while silent, silent while speaking, the gate of great giving opens without obstruction: 'He speaks what is true, what is real, what is thus, without deceit, without falsehood.' (Bah!) Speaking like this is very much like recounting a dream when one had no dream, or wetting the bed with open eyes. The one who wrote like this also deserves thirty blows of the staff. Even so, merely using provisional names to guide sentient beings, it also does no harm to comprehend the ancestral teacher's tidings of the separate transmission outside the teachings right at the place of lecturing on sūtras. Daoming need only apply effort in this way; it will do no harm to lecture on sūtras and treatises in this manner. The paper is exhausted, so let us cut off this entanglement. > — English (machine translation) (machine translation) - [Previous: 24.20](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.1998a.24.20) - [Next: 24.22](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.1998a.24.22) - [Up: 24](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.1998a.24) ## Translations (1) - [English (machine translation)](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.1998a~en-mt.24.21) — English, machine translation --- Source: [https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.1998a.24.21](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.1998a.24.21) · Pramāṇa