[Pramāṇa](https://indike.org/pramana/) › [Indian literature](https://indike.org/pramana/in) › [Buddhist Literature](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha) › [Taishō Tripiṭaka (Chinese Buddhist canon)](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho) › [辯偽錄](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.2116) › 4.2.1 # 辯偽錄 4.2.1 辯偽錄 4.2.1 - **Language:** Classical Chinese ### [4.2.1](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.2116.4.2.1) 今上問曰。 道家所造八十一化圖。 并餘謗佛文字。 李志常先於蒙哥皇帝面前。 共少林辯論已屈伏了招承燒却。 皇帝恐先生每心內不伏。 特傳聖旨再倚付將來。 令子細持論。 若是僧道兩家有輸了底。 如何治罰。 釋曰。 西天體例。 若義墮者斬頭相謝。 而道士相顧莫敢明答。 帝曰。 不須如此。 但僧家無據留髮戴冠。 道士義負剃頭為釋。 時先生每鳧躍鶴列藍袍錦袖。 攘臂爭前。 僧曰。 釋道辯諍源起化胡。 今將從頭一一討論。 且如汝書題云。 太上混元上德皇帝明威化胡成佛經。 若具辯之恐成繁雜。 且舉大意試為評論。 問云。 今化胡經文。 端的實是老子說耶。 道曰。 是老君說也。 釋曰。 若是老君說來。 化胡經中。 說俺僧眾剃髮受戒所行之事。 汝宜知之。 受戒儀範詳細說來。 道曰。 儞每之事我不管之。 釋曰。 受戒小事汝猶不知。 明顯化胡經文並是偷佛經作。 道士無答。 又問。 化胡成佛。 佛是何義。 道曰。 佛是世間上等好人。 釋曰。 自古以來多少好人。 何不稱佛耶。 佛之深義汝本不知。 道曰。 佛是覺義。 釋曰。 覺箇甚麼。 道曰。 覺察覺悟。 釋曰。 何者能覺。 何者所覺。 道曰。 覺天覺地覺陰覺陽覺仁覺義覺知覺信。 無所不覺。 是佛義也。 釋曰。 佛是大聖之人。 窮盡性命之道。 豈但覺於仁義耶。 五常訓世之典。 孔子所談。 佛若但知此者。 孔子何不稱佛耶。 道士無答。 圓福長老問姚公茂曰。 仁義等語老子之言耶。 孔子之言耶。 姚公茂答曰。 孔子之教也。 圓福曰。 道士從來偷俺佛經改作道書。 儒門唯有仁信之言。 汝家看守不定。 亦被道士每當面偷了。 帝問諸儒曰。 仁義之語孔子所談耶。 姚公茂等對曰。 是孔子之說也。 帝曰。 既是孔子之。 說云何將來說。 佛明知道家之言並是說謊之語。 道士既不能答。 乃將老子傳化胡經史記等書呈於帝。 帝曰。 不須道士多言。 但取文字為證。 帝曰。 此是何人之書。 道曰。 此是漢地自古已來有名皇帝。 集成底史記古今為憑。 帝問。 自古皇帝唯漢地出耶。 他處亦有耶。 道曰。 他國亦有。 又問。 他國皇帝與漢地皇帝都一般麼。 道曰一般。 又問。 既是一般。 他國皇帝言語。 漢地皇帝言語。 都一般中用麼。 答曰。 都中使用。 帝曰。 既中使用。 老子他處不曾行化。 而這史記文字主張。 老子化胡不是說謊文字。 那這般史記都合燒了不可憑信。 道士並無一答。 那摩國師以拄杖指著道士罵曰。 這般驢馬之人百事不曉。 與這般先生設箇什麼。 拔合思八國師問曰。 老子留下根本經。 教名為什麼。 答曰。 有道德經是正根本。 再問。 除此經外更有什麼根本經教。 再答。 唯此道德為源本經。 再問。 此道德中還有化胡事麼。 答無有此事。 問此中無有何處說耶。 答曰。 漢兒地而史記文字說化胡事。 問儞上說言。 他國史記與此漢地史記一般中用。 俺西天有頻婆娑羅王。 史記言語還憑麼。 答曰。 都是史記敢不憑信。 又問。 既然憑信彼史記道。 天上天下無如佛。 十方世界亦無比。 此是西天史記恁般說來。 既天上天下無如佛。 何處更顯老君化胡成佛來。 明知儞每之言並是虛諂之說。 道士無答。 國師又曰。 彼史記又言。 天下有頭髮底俗人。 禮拜一箇小小沙彌。 這般言語彼史記道來。 不曾見說老君度人。 汝曾聞麼。 道士答曰。 不曾聞得。 上怒曰。 偏此史記汝不聞得。 漢地史記儞偏聞得。 姚公茂謂道士曰。 守隅曲士難論大方。 只為執著漢兒史記自語相違。 向者前言都是史記敢不憑信。 既西天史記如此言之。 則佛是聖也。 今已輸了猶更折證道士默然。 帝曰。 老君之名但聞此處。 > The Present Emperor asked: "The Eighty-One Transformations Diagram and other writings defaming the Buddha fabricated by the Daoists—Li Zhichang had previously succumbed before Möngke Khan in the debate with \[Elder\] Shaolin, admitting defeat and having them burnt. Fearing that you masters were not convinced in your hearts, the Emperor specially issued an imperial decree entrusting the matter again, ordering you to conduct a detailed debate. If either the Buddhists or the Daoists lose, how should they be punished?" The Buddhists said: "According to the precedent in the Western Heavens (India), whoever is defeated in debate is beheaded by way of apology." The Daoists looked at one another and dared not give a clear answer. The Emperor said: "There is no need for this. Only, if the Buddhists have no proof, they shall grow hair and wear caps; if the Daoists lose the debate, they shall shave their heads and become Buddhists." At that time, the Daoist masters leapt like wild ducks and lined up like cranes in their blue robes and brocade sleeves, rolling up their sleeves to rush forward. A Buddhist monk said: "The disputes between Buddhism and Daoism originated from the 'conversion of the barbarians.' Now we shall discuss it thoroughly from the beginning. For instance, the title of your book says: Sutra of the Supreme Primordial Emperor of High Virtue on Manifesting Awe, Converting the Barbarians, and Becoming the Buddha. If we were to debate it in detail, it might become overly complicated; let us first bring up the general meaning to evaluate it. We ask: Does the present text of the Huahu jing truly and honestly come from Laozi's preaching?" The Daoists said: "It was spoken by Lord Lao." The Buddhists said: "If it was spoken by Lord Lao, the Huahu jing speaks of what our monks do in shaving their hair and receiving the precepts; you should know this. Explain the rites and norms of receiving the precepts in detail!" The Daoists said: "We do not concern ourselves with your affairs." The Buddhists said: "You do not even know a minor matter such as receiving the precepts; clearly the text of the Huahu jing was entirely stolen from Buddhist sutras!" The Daoists had no answer. \[The Buddhists\] asked again: "In 'converting the barbarians and becoming the Buddha', what is the meaning of 'Buddha'?" The Daoists said: "A Buddha is a top-grade good person in the world." The Buddhists said: "Since antiquity, how many good people have there been? Why are they not called Buddhas? You do not know the profound meaning of Buddha at all." The Daoists said: "Buddha has the meaning of 'awakened' (jue)." The Buddhists said: "Awakened to what?" The Daoists said: "Perceiving and awakening." The Buddhists said: "What is that which awakens, and what is that which is awakened to?" The Daoists said: "Awakened to heaven, awakened to earth, awakened to yin, awakened to yang, awakened to benevolence, awakened to righteousness, awakened to knowledge, awakened to trustworthiness—there is nothing not awakened to: this is the meaning of Buddha." The Buddhists said: "The Buddha is a Great Sage who exhausted the path of nature and life; how could he merely be awakened to benevolence and righteousness? The canons teaching the world about the Five Constants were spoken by Confucius. If a Buddha only knew these, why was Confucius not called a Buddha?" The Daoists had no answer. Elder Yuanfu asked Yao Gongmao: "Are words such as benevolence and righteousness the words of Laozi or the words of Confucius?" Yao Gongmao replied: "They are the teachings of Confucius." Yuanfu said: "The Daoists have always stolen our Buddhist sutras to alter them into Daoist books. The Confucian school only possesses the teachings of benevolence and trustworthiness, yet you failed to guard them securely, and they were also stolen right in front of you by the Daoists!" The Emperor asked the Confucians: "Were the words on benevolence and righteousness spoken by Confucius?" Yao Gongmao and others replied: "They are the sayings of Confucius." The Emperor said: "Since they are the sayings of Confucius, why bring them forward to explain the Buddha? It is obvious that the words of the Daoists are all lies." The Daoists, having failed to answer, thereupon presented books such as the Biography of Laozi, the Huahu jing, and historical records to the Emperor. The Emperor said: "There is no need for the Daoists to speak much; let us only take the writings as proof." The Emperor said: "Whose books are these?" The Daoists said: "These are historical records compiled by famous emperors of the Han land since antiquity, serving as evidence of past and present." The Emperor asked: "Since antiquity, have emperors only appeared in the Han land, or do they exist elsewhere as well?" The Daoists said: "Other countries also have them." \[The Emperor\] asked again: "Are the emperors of other countries and the emperors of the Han land all the same?" The Daoists said: "They are the same." \[The Emperor\] asked again: "Since they are the same, are the words of emperors of other countries and the words of emperors of the Han land equally usable?" \[The Daoists\] replied: "They are all usable." The Emperor said: "Since they are usable, Laozi never carried out conversions elsewhere, yet these historical records claim that Laozi converted the barbarians—are they not lying texts? Then such historical records all ought to be burnt and cannot be relied upon!" The Daoists had no reply whatsoever. State Preceptor Namo pointed his staff at the Daoists and scolded them, saying: "Such ass-like and horse-like people understand nothing of the hundred matters! What is the use of setting up \[a debate\] with such masters?" Imperial Preceptor Phags-pa asked: "What is the name of the fundamental scripture left behind by Laozi?" They replied: "There is the Daodejing, which is the genuine foundation." He asked again: "Aside from this scripture, is there any other fundamental scriptural teaching?" They replied again: "Only this Daodejing is the original scripture." He asked again: "Within this Daodejing, is there any matter of converting the barbarians?" They replied: "There is no such matter." He asked: "If it is not found herein, where is it spoken of?" They replied: "The historical records of the Han lands speak of the matter of converting the barbarians." He asked: "You stated above that the historical records of other countries and the historical records of this Han land are equally usable. In our Western Heavens, King Bimbisāra existed; can the words of his historical records still be relied upon?" They replied: "They are all historical records; how dare we not rely upon them?" He asked again: "Since you rely upon them, those historical records state: 'Above the heavens and below the heavens, there is none like the Buddha; throughout the worlds of the ten directions, he is peerless.' This is what the historical records of the Western Heavens say. Since above the heavens and below the heavens there is none like the Buddha, where could it ever be shown that Lord Lao converted the barbarians to become the Buddha? It is obvious that your words are all empty flatteries!" The Daoists had no answer. The Imperial Preceptor said again: "Those historical records also state: 'Laymen with hair throughout the world bow down to a single small novice monk.' Such words are spoken in those historical records, yet we have never seen it said that Lord Lao saved people. Have you ever heard of this?" The Daoists replied: "We have not heard of it." The Emperor said angrily: "How is it that you have not heard of these historical records in particular, but have heard only of the historical records of the Han land?" Yao Gongmao said to the Daoists: "It is difficult to discuss the great breadth with a petty man confined to a corner. It is simply because of clinging to the Han people's historical records that your own words contradict each other! Earlier you stated: 'They are all historical records; how dare we not rely upon them?' Since the historical records of the Western Heavens say this, then the Buddha is a sage! Now that you have already lost, why do you still argue back?" The Daoists remained silent. The Emperor said: "The name of Lord Lao is only heard of in this place." > — English (machine translation) (machine translation) - [Previous: 4.1](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.2116.4.1) - [Next: 4.2.2](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.2116.4.2.2) - [Up: 4.2](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.2116.4.2) ## Translations (1) - [English (machine translation)](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.2116~en-mt.4.2.1) — English, machine translation --- Source: [https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.2116.4.2.1](https://indike.org/pramana/in.bauddha.taisho.2116.4.2.1) · Pramāṇa