Kathavatthu 13.4: Niyatassaniyāmakathā

13.4.1.1

Niyato niyāmaṃ okkamatīti?

Does one who is determined enter the fixed order?

Controverted Point: That one who is morally certain of salvation has entered the Path of Assurance.

13.4.1.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Controverted Point: That one who is morally certain of salvation has entered the Path of Assurance.

13.4.1.3

Micchattaniyato sammattaniyāmaṃ okkamati, sammattaniyato micchattaniyāmaṃ okkamatīti?

Does one determined to wrongness enter the fixed order of rightness, or one determined to rightness enter the fixed order of wrongness?

Theravādin: Do you imply that the so-called “Assured” enters upon the True Path of Assurance when assured of immediate retribution, and upon the False Path of Assurance when assured of final salvation? That having first practised the Path, he afterwards enters upon the Assurance; that having first practised the Stream-Winner's Path, he afterwards enters upon the Assurance of the Stream-Winner, and so on … That finally, entrance upon Assurance comes after practise of the applications in mindfulness and the rest of the Factors of Enlightenment?

13.4.1.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe…

13.4.2.1

Niyato niyāmaṃ okkamatīti?

Does one who is determined enter the fixed order?

13.4.2.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

13.4.2.3

Pubbe maggaṃ bhāvetvā pacchā niyāmaṃ okkamatīti?

Having first developed the path, does he later enter the fixed order?

13.4.2.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe…

It should not be said thus …pe…

13.4.2.5

pubbe sotāpattimaggaṃ bhāvetvā pacchā sotāpattiniyāmaṃ okkamatīti?

Having first developed the path of stream-entry, does he later enter the fixed order of stream-entry?

13.4.2.6

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe…

It should not be said thus …pe…

13.4.2.7

pubbe sakadāgāmi …pe…

Having first [developed] the once-returner …pe…

13.4.2.8

anāgāmi …pe…

the non-returner …pe…

13.4.2.9

arahattamaggaṃ bhāvetvā pacchā arahattaniyāmaṃ okkamatīti?

the path of arahantship, does he later enter the fixed order of arahantship?

13.4.2.10

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe…

13.4.3.1

Pubbe satipaṭṭhānaṃ …pe…

Having first developed an establishment of mindfulness …pe…

13.4.3.2

sammappadhānaṃ … iddhipādaṃ … indriyaṃ … balaṃ … bojjhaṅgaṃ bhāvetvā pacchā niyāmaṃ okkamatīti?

a right effort … a basis for psychic power … a faculty … a power … an awakening factor, does he later enter the fixed order?

13.4.3.3

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe…

13.4.4.1

Na vattabbaṃ—

Should it not be said—

Pubbaseliya, Aparaseliya: But in contradicting us, you imply that the Bodhisat was not fitted by that last birth to penetrate the Truths.

13.4.4.2

“niyato niyāmaṃ okkamatī”ti?

“One who is determined enters the fixed order”?

Pubbaseliya, Aparaseliya: But in contradicting us, you imply that the Bodhisat was not fitted by that last birth to penetrate the Truths.

13.4.4.3

Āmantā.

Yes.

Pubbaseliya, Aparaseliya: But in contradicting us, you imply that the Bodhisat was not fitted by that last birth to penetrate the Truths.

13.4.4.4

Bhabbo bodhisatto tāya jātiyā dhammaṃ nābhisametunti?

Was the bodhisatta capable of failing to comprehend the Dhamma in that birth?

Pubbaseliya, Aparaseliya: But in contradicting us, you imply that the Bodhisat was not fitted by that last birth to penetrate the Truths.

13.4.4.5

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

Theravādin: Nay, I say not so.

13.4.4.6

Tena hi niyato niyāmaṃ okkamatīti.

Therefore, one who is determined enters the fixed order.

Pubbaseliya, Aparaseliya: Then he was already assured of entering upon the Path of Assurance.

13.4.4.7

Niyatassa niyāmakathā niṭṭhitā.

Discussion on the fixed order of one who is determined is finished.