Kathavatthu 2.6: Dukkhāhārakathā

2.6.1.1

Dukkhāhāro maggaṅgaṃ maggapariyāpannanti?

Is the utterance “suffering” a factor of the path, included in the path?

Controverted Point: That induction of insight by the word “sorrow!” is a factor of and included in the Path.

2.6.1.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Controverted Point: That induction of insight by the word “sorrow!” is a factor of and included in the Path.

2.6.1.3

Ye keci dukkhanti vācaṃ bhāsanti, sabbe te maggaṃ bhāventīti?

Do all those who speak the word “suffering” develop the path?

Theravādin: Then you must also affirm that all who utter that word are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.1.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

Theravādin: Then you must also affirm that all who utter that word are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.1

Ye keci dukkhanti vācaṃ bhāsanti, sabbe te maggaṃ bhāventīti?

Do all those who speak the word “suffering” develop the path?

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.3

Bālaputhujjanā dukkhanti vācaṃ bhāsanti, bālaputhujjanā maggaṃ bhāventīti?

Foolish ordinary persons speak the word “suffering”; do foolish ordinary persons develop the path?

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.5

Mātughātako …

A matricide …

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.6

pitughātako …

A parricide …

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.7

arahantaghātako …

A murderer of an arahant …

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.8

ruhiruppādako …

One who sheds [the Buddha’s] blood …

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.9

saṅghabhedako dukkhanti vācaṃ bhāsati, saṅghabhedako maggaṃ bhāvetīti?

A schismatic utters the word “suffering”; does a schismatic develop the path?

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.10

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

Or if you do affirm this, notwithstanding, then you must also affirm that the average foolish person, in uttering that word, is practising the Path, and, again, that matricides, parricides, murderers of Arahants, those that shed blood of Buddhas, those that cause schism in the Order, in uttering the word “sorrow!” are practising the Path, which is absurd.

2.6.2.11

Dukkhāhārakathā niṭṭhitā.

Discussion on the vocal utterance “suffering” is finished.