Kathavatthu 2.8.1

Controverted Point: That all conditioned things are absolutely cinderheaps.

Controverted Point: That all conditioned things are absolutely cinderheaps.

Theravādin: You affirm this; but is there not such a thing as pleasurable feeling, bodily pleasure, mental pleasure, celestial happiness, human happiness, the pleasures of gain, of being honoured, of riding-and-driving, of resting, the pleasures of ruling, of administrating, of domestic-and-secular life, of the religious life, pleasures involved in the intoxicants and pleasures that are not, the happiness of Nibbāna, both while stuff of life remains and when none remains, worldly and spiritual pleasures, happiness with zest and without zest, Jhāna-happiness, the bliss of liberty, pleasures of sense-desire, and the happiness of renunciation, the bliss of solitude, of peace, of enlightenment? Of course. How then can you maintain your general affirmation?

Theravādin: You affirm this; but is there not such a thing as pleasurable feeling, bodily pleasure, mental pleasure, celestial happiness, human happiness, the pleasures of gain, of being honoured, of riding-and-driving, of resting, the pleasures of ruling, of administrating, of domestic-and-secular life, of the religious life, pleasures involved in the intoxicants and pleasures that are not, the happiness of Nibbāna, both while stuff of life remains and when none remains, worldly and spiritual pleasures, happiness with zest and without zest, Jhāna-happiness, the bliss of liberty, pleasures of sense-desire, and the happiness of renunciation, the bliss of solitude, of peace, of enlightenment? Of course. How then can you maintain your general affirmation?

Theravādin: You affirm this; but is there not such a thing as pleasurable feeling, bodily pleasure, mental pleasure, celestial happiness, human happiness, the pleasures of gain, of being honoured, of riding-and-driving, of resting, the pleasures of ruling, of administrating, of domestic-and-secular life, of the religious life, pleasures involved in the intoxicants and pleasures that are not, the happiness of Nibbāna, both while stuff of life remains and when none remains, worldly and spiritual pleasures, happiness with zest and without zest, Jhāna-happiness, the bliss of liberty, pleasures of sense-desire, and the happiness of renunciation, the bliss of solitude, of peace, of enlightenment? Of course. How then can you maintain your general affirmation?

Theravādin: You affirm this; but is there not such a thing as pleasurable feeling, bodily pleasure, mental pleasure, celestial happiness, human happiness, the pleasures of gain, of being honoured, of riding-and-driving, of resting, the pleasures of ruling, of administrating, of domestic-and-secular life, of the religious life, pleasures involved in the intoxicants and pleasures that are not, the happiness of Nibbāna, both while stuff of life remains and when none remains, worldly and spiritual pleasures, happiness with zest and without zest, Jhāna-happiness, the bliss of liberty, pleasures of sense-desire, and the happiness of renunciation, the bliss of solitude, of peace, of enlightenment? Of course. How then can you maintain your general affirmation?

Theravādin: You affirm this; but is there not such a thing as pleasurable feeling, bodily pleasure, mental pleasure, celestial happiness, human happiness, the pleasures of gain, of being honoured, of riding-and-driving, of resting, the pleasures of ruling, of administrating, of domestic-and-secular life, of the religious life, pleasures involved in the intoxicants and pleasures that are not, the happiness of Nibbāna, both while stuff of life remains and when none remains, worldly and spiritual pleasures, happiness with zest and without zest, Jhāna-happiness, the bliss of liberty, pleasures of sense-desire, and the happiness of renunciation, the bliss of solitude, of peace, of enlightenment? Of course. How then can you maintain your general affirmation?