大般涅槃經集解 65.30

65.30

Sengliang states: That the four great elements are called form means: phenomena of form are of five kinds; the four great elements are provisional, and by speaking of the four, all visible objects are spoken of exhaustively. Sound issues from the four great elements; by citing the root, the branches are subsumed. 'Determinatively stated that form is the four great elements' means: wherever there is form, the four great elements are always together; there is fire in water, cold in hot water, and sound in the air also has the four great elements—this misses the point. Sengzong states: This is the twelfth dispute. Speaking in terms of the correct doctrine, color, smell, and taste constitute the four great elements, and the four great elements in turn constitute the five sense faculties such as the eye. Although they are called fourteen kinds of form, in terms of subsumption by nature, they do not go beyond the four great elements. If the four great elements are the cause and the five sense faculties are the effect, there is no cause apart from the effect, so one may say they are produced by the cause. Hearing it said that the four great elements are called form, not understanding subsumption by nature, they claim there are only the four great elements and no other forms. Hearing it said that derived form is made based on the four great elements, one may say that derived faculties are completed through the great elements, and apart from the cause there is no effect. […] If based on what is explained in the Chapter on the Four Great Elements, they all do not differentiate the four great elements. Not discerning these words, they say the four great elements of the past produce the form of the three times, asserting that the present physical and verbal karmic form exists because the fourteen great forces of the past are strong and therefore able to produce them; the present produces two times, and the future produces only one time. Failing to grasp the Buddha's intent, they again dispute. Baoliang states: Some people claim that the four great elements have strong power and can produce form and the like, while form and the like have weak power and cannot produce the four great elements. They constantly make this reckoning. Again, at another time, the Buddha said to the monks: The five aggregates are entirely empty; what is form? Form is just the four great elements. Thereupon they said the four great elements cannot produce form. Again, at another time, he said that the four great elements produce form, such as squareness, roundness, and so forth; this is merely a cause of mutual dependence. Those who heard this statement thereupon said that the four great elements definitely can produce form. Speaking of the Middle Way and speaking of the correct doctrine, one should say they both produce and do not produce. Why? Because various provisional forms such as square and round arise based on the four great elements, one also says they produce. The preceding is the four great elements and the succeeding is also the four great elements, so there is no production. The five sense objects are also like this: because the coarse is completed based on the subtle, one may also say form produces form. Since the preceding is form and the succeeding is also form, one says they do not produce. People do not understand: hearing of production, they make everything produce; hearing of non-production, they claim nothing produces. Both productions miss the Middle Way, which is why disputes arise.