Kathavatthu 4.8: Niyāmokkantikathā

4.8.1.1

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyoti?

[Did] the bodhisatta enter the fixed order and live the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One Kassapa?

Controverted Point: That the Bodhisat had entered on the Path of Assurance and conformed to the life therein during the dispensation of Kassapa Buddha.

4.8.1.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Controverted Point: That the Bodhisat had entered on the Path of Assurance and conformed to the life therein during the dispensation of Kassapa Buddha.

4.8.1.3

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato sāvakoti?

Was the bodhisatta a disciple of the Blessed One Kassapa?

Theravādin: If so, our Bodhisat must have been a disciple—i.e., one in the Ariyan Way—of Kassapa Buddha. You deny. For if you assent, you must admit that he became Buddha after his career as disciple. Moreover, a “disciple” is one who learns through information from others, while a Buddha is self-developed.

4.8.1.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.2.1

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato sāvakoti?

Was the bodhisatta a disciple of the Blessed One Kassapa?

4.8.2.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.2.3

Sāvako hutvā buddho hotīti?

Having been a disciple, does one become a Buddha?

4.8.2.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.3.1

Sāvako hutvā buddho hotīti?

Having been a disciple, does one become a Buddha?

4.8.3.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.3.3

Anussaviyoti?

Is he one who learned by oral tradition?

4.8.3.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.4.1

Anussaviyoti?

Is he one who learned by oral tradition?

4.8.4.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.4.3

Nanu bhagavā sayambhūti?

Is not the Blessed One self-become?

4.8.4.4

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.4.5

Hañci bhagavā sayambhū, no ca vata re vattabbe—

If the Blessed One is self-become, then indeed, sir, it should not be said:

4.8.4.6

“anussaviyo”ti.

“He is one who learned by oral tradition.”

4.8.5.1

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyoti?

[Did] the bodhisatta enter the fixed order and live the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One Kassapa?

Further, if the Bodhisat became Kassapa's disciple, entering on the first Path and Fruit, it follows that there were only three stages of fruition for him to know thoroughly when under the Bodhi Tree. But we believe that all four were then realized.

4.8.5.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.5.3

Bhagavatā bodhiyā mūle tīṇeva sāmaññaphalāni abhisambuddhānīti?

Were only three fruits of asceticism fully awakened to by the Blessed One at the foot of the Bodhi tree?

4.8.5.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.6.1

Nanu bhagavatā bodhiyā mūle cattāri sāmaññaphalāni abhisambuddhānīti?

Were not four fruits of asceticism fully awakened to by the Blessed One at the foot of the Bodhi tree?

4.8.6.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.6.3

Hañci bhagavatā bodhiyā mūle cattāri sāmaññaphalāni abhisambuddhāni, no ca vata re vattabbe—

If four fruits of asceticism were fully awakened to by the Blessed One at the foot of the Bodhi tree, then indeed, sir, it should not be said:

4.8.6.4

“bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo”ti.

“The bodhisatta entered the fixed order and lived the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One Kassapa.”

4.8.7.1

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyoti?

[Did] the bodhisatta enter the fixed order and live the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One Kassapa?

Further, would one who had entered on the Path of Assurance as a disciple have undergone the austerities practised by the Bodhisat in his own last life? And would such an one point to others as his teachers and practise their austerities, as did the Bodhisat in his last life?

4.8.7.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.7.3

Bodhisatto dukkarakāriyaṃ akāsīti?

Did the bodhisatta practice austerities?

4.8.7.4

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.7.5

Dassanasampanno puggalo dukkarakāriyaṃ kareyyāti?

Would a person accomplished in vision practice austerities?

4.8.7.6

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.8.1

Bodhisatto aparantapaṃ akāsi, aññaṃ satthāraṃ uddisīti?

Did the bodhisatta inflict torment on others, did he declare another teacher?

4.8.8.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.8.3

Dassanasampanno puggalo aññaṃ satthāraṃ uddiseyyāti?

Would a person accomplished in vision declare another teacher?

4.8.8.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.9.1

Āyasmā ānando bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo, āyasmā ānando bhagavato sāvakoti?

Venerable Ānanda entered the fixed order and lived the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One, and is Venerable Ānanda a disciple of the Blessed One?

Do we learn that, as the Venerable Ānanda, and the householder Citta and Hatthaka the Āḷavakan entered into Assurance and lived its higher life as disciples under the Exalted One, so the Exalted One himself, as Bodhisat, acted under Kassapa Buddha? You deny, of course.

4.8.9.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.9.3

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo, bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato sāvakoti?

The bodhisatta entered the fixed order and lived the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One Kassapa, and was the bodhisatta a disciple of the Blessed One Kassapa?

4.8.9.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.10.1

Citto gahapati hatthako āḷavako bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo, citto gahapati hatthako āḷavako bhagavato sāvakoti?

Citta the householder and Hatthaka of Āḷavī entered the fixed order and lived the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One, and are Citta the householder and Hatthaka of Āḷavī disciples of the Blessed One?

4.8.10.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.10.3

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo, bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato sāvakoti?

The bodhisatta entered the fixed order and lived the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One Kassapa, and was the bodhisatta a disciple of the Blessed One Kassapa?

4.8.10.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.11.1

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo, na ca kassapassa bhagavato sāvakoti?

[Did] the bodhisatta enter the fixed order and live the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One Kassapa, yet was not a disciple of the Blessed One Kassapa?

If they did so enter, under the Exalted One, as his disciples, you cannot affirm that the Bodhisat entered on the Path of Assurance, and lived its higher life under Kassapa Buddha without being his disciple. Or can a disciple who has evolved past one birth become a non-disciple afterwards? You deny, of course.

4.8.11.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.11.3

Āyasmā ānando bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo, na ca bhagavato sāvakoti?

[Did] Venerable Ānanda enter the fixed order and live the spiritual life in the dispensation of the Blessed One, yet was not a disciple of the Blessed One?

4.8.11.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.12.1

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo, na ca kassapassa bhagavato sāvakoti?

Did the bodhisatta, having entered the fixed order [and] lived the spiritual life under the teaching of the Blessed One Kassapa, not become a disciple of the Blessed One Kassapa?

4.8.12.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.12.3

Citto gahapati hatthako āḷavako bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo, na ca bhagavato sāvakoti?

Did Citta the householder and Hatthaka of Āḷavī, having entered the fixed order [and] lived the spiritual life under the teaching of the Blessed One, not become disciples of the Blessed One?

4.8.12.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.13.1

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo, na ca kassapassa bhagavato sāvakoti?

Did the bodhisatta, having entered the fixed order [and] lived the spiritual life under the teaching of the Blessed One Kassapa, not become a disciple of the Blessed One Kassapa?

4.8.13.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.13.3

Sāvako jātiṃ vītivatto asāvako hotīti?

Does a disciple, having transcended [rebirth into another] birth, become a non-disciple?

4.8.13.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

4.8.14.1

Na vattabbaṃ—

Should it not be said:

Andhaka, Uttarāpathaka: But if our proposition is wrong, is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.14.2

“bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo”ti?

“The bodhisatta entered the fixed order [and] lived the spiritual life under the teaching of the Blessed One Kassapa”?

Andhaka, Uttarāpathaka: But if our proposition is wrong, is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.14.3

Āmantā.

Yes.

Andhaka, Uttarāpathaka: But if our proposition is wrong, is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.14.4

Nanu vuttaṃ bhagavatā—

Was it not said by the Blessed One:

Andhaka, Uttarāpathaka: But if our proposition is wrong, is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.14.5

“kassape ahaṃ, ānanda, bhagavati brahmacariyaṃ acariṃ āyatiṃ sambodhāyā”ti.

“Ānanda, I lived the spiritual life under the Blessed One Kassapa for future awakening”?

“Under the Exalted One Kassapa, Ānanda, I lived the higher life for supreme enlightenment in the future”?

4.8.14.6

Attheva suttantoti?

Is there such a discourse?

“Under the Exalted One Kassapa, Ānanda, I lived the higher life for supreme enlightenment in the future”?

4.8.14.7

Āmantā.

Yes.

“Under the Exalted One Kassapa, Ānanda, I lived the higher life for supreme enlightenment in the future”?

4.8.14.8

Tena hi na vattabbaṃ—

Therefore it should not be said:

“Under the Exalted One Kassapa, Ānanda, I lived the higher life for supreme enlightenment in the future”?

4.8.14.9

“bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo”ti.

“The bodhisatta entered the fixed order [and] lived the spiritual life under the teaching of the Blessed One Kassapa.”

“Under the Exalted One Kassapa, Ānanda, I lived the higher life for supreme enlightenment in the future”?

4.8.15.1

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyoti?

Did the bodhisatta enter the fixed order [and] live the spiritual life under the teaching of the Blessed One Kassapa?

Theravādin: But is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.15.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Theravādin: But is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.15.3

Nanu vuttaṃ bhagavatā—

Was it not said by the Blessed One:

Theravādin: But is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.16.1

“Sabbābhibhū sabbavidūhamasmi,

“All-vanquishing, all-knowing am I,

“All have I overcome. All things I know,
'Mid all things undefiled. Renouncing all,
In death of craving wholly free. My own
The deeper view. Whom should I name to thee?
For me no teacher lives. I stand alone
On earth, in heav'n rival to me there's none.
Yea, I am Arahant as to this world,
A Teacher I above whom there is none.
Supreme enlightenment is mine alone.
In holy Coolness I, all fires extinct.
Now go I on seeking Benares town,
To start the Wheel, to set on foot the Norm.
Amid a world in gloom and very blind,
I strike the alarm upon Ambrosia's Drum”?

4.8.16.2

Sabbesu dhammesu anupalitto;

unsullied among all things;

4.8.16.3

Sabbañjaho taṇhakkhaye vimutto,

relinquishing all, freed in the destruction of craving,

4.8.16.4

Sayaṃ abhiññāya kamuddiseyyaṃ.

having fully known by myself, whom should I point to [as teacher]?

4.8.17.1

Na me ācariyo atthi,

I have no teacher,

4.8.17.2

sadiso me na vijjati;

no one like me is found;

4.8.17.3

Sadevakasmiṃ lokasmiṃ,

in the world with its devas,

4.8.17.4

natthi me paṭipuggalo.

there is no counterpart to me.

4.8.18.1

Ahañhi arahā loke,

For I am the arahant in the world,

4.8.18.2

ahaṃ satthā anuttaro;

I am the supreme teacher;

4.8.18.3

Ekomhi sammāsambuddho,

I alone am the Fully Awakened One,

4.8.18.4

sītibhūtosmi nibbuto.

cooled am I, attained to unbinding.

4.8.19.1

Dhammacakkaṃ pavattetuṃ,

To set rolling the wheel of Dhamma,

4.8.19.2

Gacchāmi kāsinaṃ puraṃ;

I go to the city of the Kāsīs;

4.8.19.3

Andhībhūtasmiṃ lokasmiṃ,

in a world become blind,

4.8.19.4

Āhañchaṃ amatadundubhin”ti.

I shall beat the drum of the deathless.”

4.8.20.1

“Yathā kho tvaṃ, āvuso, paṭijānāsi, arahasi anantajino”ti?

“According to what you claim, friend, you deserve to be an infinite conqueror?”

“According to what thou declarest, brother, thou art indeed Arahant, `worthy' to be conqueror world without end”.

4.8.21.1

“Mādisā ve jinā honti,

“Conquerors indeed are those like me,

“Like unto me indeed are conquerors
Who every poisonous canker have cast out.
Conquered by me is every evil thing,
And therefore am I conqueror, Upaka”?

4.8.21.2

ye pattā āsavakkhayaṃ;

who have attained the destruction of the effluents;

4.8.21.3

Jitā me pāpakā dhammā,

conquered by me are evil states,

4.8.21.4

tasmāhaṃ upaka jino”ti.

therefore, Upaka, I am a conqueror.”

4.8.22.1

Attheva suttantoti?

Is there such a discourse?

4.8.22.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

4.8.22.3

Tena hi na vattabbaṃ—

Therefore it should not be said:

4.8.22.4

“bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo”ti.

“The bodhisatta entered the fixed order [and] lived the spiritual life under the teaching of the Blessed One Kassapa.”

4.8.23.1

Bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyoti?

Did the bodhisatta enter the fixed order [and] live the spiritual life under the teaching of the Blessed One Kassapa?

And is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.23.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

And is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.23.3

Nanu vuttaṃ bhagavatā—

Was it not said by the Blessed One:

And is there not a Suttanta in which the Exalted One said:

4.8.23.4

“‘idaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasaccan’ti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṃ udapādi, ñāṇaṃ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādi.

“‘This is the noble truth of suffering’—thus, monks, regarding things unheard of before, vision arose, knowledge arose, wisdom arose, higher knowledge arose, light arose.

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.5

‘Taṃ kho panidaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasaccaṃ pariññeyyan’ti me, bhikkhave …pe…

‘Now this noble truth of suffering is to be fully understood’—thus, monks …pe…

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.6

pariññātanti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṃ udapādi …pe… āloko udapādi.

‘has been fully understood’—thus, monks, regarding things unheard of before, vision arose …pe… light arose.

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.7

‘Idaṃ dukkhasamudayaṃ ariyasaccan’ti me, bhikkhave …pe…

‘This is the noble truth of the origin of suffering’—thus, monks …pe…

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.8

‘taṃ kho panidaṃ dukkhasamudayaṃ ariyasaccaṃ pahātabban’ti me, bhikkhave …pe…

‘This noble truth of the origin of suffering is to be abandoned,’ monks … and so forth …

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.9

pahīnanti me, bhikkhave …pe…

‘It has been abandoned,’ monks … and so forth …

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.10

‘idaṃ dukkhanirodhaṃ ariyasaccan’ti me, bhikkhave …pe…

‘This is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering,’ monks … and so forth …

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.11

‘taṃ kho panidaṃ dukkhanirodhaṃ ariyasaccaṃ sacchikātabban’ti me, bhikkhave …pe…

‘This noble truth of the cessation of suffering is to be realized,’ monks … and so forth …

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.12

sacchikatanti me, bhikkhave …pe…

‘It has been realized,’ monks … and so forth …

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.13

‘idaṃ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā ariyasaccan’ti me, bhikkhave …pe…

‘This is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering,’ monks … and so forth …

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.14

‘taṃ kho panidaṃ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā ariyasaccaṃ bhāvetabban’ti me, bhikkhave …pe…

‘This noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering is to be cultivated,’ monks … and so forth …

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.15

bhāvitanti me, bhikkhave, pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṃ udapādi, ñāṇaṃ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādī”ti.

‘It has been cultivated,’ monks: regarding things unheard before, vision arose, knowledge arose, wisdom arose, higher knowledge arose, light arose.”

“O bhikkhus, it was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth of the nature and fact of Ill, and that this Truth was to be understood, and was understood by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cause of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be put away, and was put away by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Cessation of Ill, and that this Truth was concerning something to be realized, and was realized by me. It was concerning things unlearnt before that vision, insight, understanding, wisdom, light arose in me at the thought of the Ariyan Truth as to the Course leading to the cessation of Ill, and that this truth was to be developed, and was developed by me”?

4.8.23.16

Attheva suttantoti?

Is there such a sutta passage?

How then can you say that the Bodhisat entered on the Path of Assurance and lived the higher life thereof as far back as the age of Kassapa Buddha?

4.8.23.17

Āmantā.

Yes.

How then can you say that the Bodhisat entered on the Path of Assurance and lived the higher life thereof as far back as the age of Kassapa Buddha?

4.8.23.18

Tena hi na vattabbaṃ—

Then it should certainly not be said:

How then can you say that the Bodhisat entered on the Path of Assurance and lived the higher life thereof as far back as the age of Kassapa Buddha?

4.8.23.19

“bodhisatto kassapassa bhagavato pāvacane okkantaniyāmo caritabrahmacariyo”ti.

“The bodhisatta entered the fixed order and lived the holy life under the dispensation of the Blessed One Kassapa.”

How then can you say that the Bodhisat entered on the Path of Assurance and lived the higher life thereof as far back as the age of Kassapa Buddha?

4.8.23.20

Niyāmokkantikathā niṭṭhitā.

The discussion on entering the fixed order is finished.