Pramāṇa · Search · About · API

Viyahapannatti 5.8

English (machine translation) 5.8

Language
English

5.8.262

At that time, in that period, [the Lord arrived, …] up to the assembly returned.
At that time, in that period, a disciple of the ascetic Lord Mahāvīra, a homeless ascetic named Nāradaputra, naturally gentle, was living [there] up to [in self-restraint].
At that time, in that period, a disciple of the Lord Mahāvīra, a homeless ascetic named Nirgranthīputra, naturally gentle, was living [there] up to [in self-restraint]. Then that homeless ascetic Nirgranthīputra went to where the homeless ascetic Nāradaputra was; having approached, he spoke thus to the homeless ascetic Nāradaputra: "Noble Sir, are all pudgalas, in your view, with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units (pradeśas)? Or are they without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units?"
Addressing him as "Noble Sir!", the homeless ascetic Nāradaputra spoke thus to the homeless ascetic Nirgranthīputra: "Noble Sir, in my view, all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units; they are not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units."
Then that homeless ascetic Nirgranthīputra spoke thus to the homeless ascetic Nāradaputra: "If, Noble Sir, all pudgalas in your view are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, and not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units, is it—
Noble Sir, in terms of substance that all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units?
Noble Sir, in terms of space that all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units?
Noble Sir, in terms of time that all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units?
Noble Sir, in terms of state that all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units?"
Then that homeless ascetic Nāradaputra spoke thus to the homeless ascetic Nirgranthīputra: "Noble Sir, in my view, even in terms of substance all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, and not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units; also in terms of space, also in terms of time, and also in terms of state."
Then that homeless ascetic Nirgranthīputra spoke thus to the homeless ascetic Nāradaputra: "If, Noble Sir, in terms of substance all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, and not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units, then for you even an indivisible atom (paramāṇu) pudgala would be with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units.
If, Noble Sir, even in terms of space all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, then for you even a pudgala occupying a single space point would be with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units.
If, Noble Sir, in terms of time all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, then for you even a pudgala with a duration of a single instant (samaya) would be with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units.
If, Noble Sir, in terms of state all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, then for you even a pudgala with a single degree of blackness would be with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units.
Now, if you do not hold this, then what you say—that even in terms of substance all pudgalas are with a half, with a middle, and with spatial units, and not without a half, without a middle, and without spatial units, and likewise in terms of space, in terms of time, and in terms of state—is false."
Then that homeless ascetic Nāradaputra spoke thus to the homeless ascetic Nirgranthīputra: "Indeed, O Beloved of the Gods, we do not know or see this matter in this way. If, O Beloved of the Gods, it is no weariness to explain it, then I wish to hear, comprehend, and know this matter from you, O Beloved of the Gods."
Then that homeless ascetic Nirgranthīputra spoke thus to the homeless ascetic Nāradaputra: "Noble Sir, in my view, in terms of substance all pudgalas are both with spatial units and without spatial units—they are infinite.
Even in terms of space, Noble Sir, all pudgalas are both with spatial units and without spatial units—they are infinite.
Even in terms of time, Noble Sir, all pudgalas are both with spatial units and without spatial units—they are infinite.
Even in terms of state, Noble Sir, all pudgalas are both with spatial units and without spatial units—they are infinite.
That which is without spatial units in terms of substance is necessarily without spatial units in terms of space; in terms of time it may be with spatial units, or it may be without spatial units; in terms of state it may be with spatial units, or it may be without spatial units.
That which is without spatial units in terms of space may be with spatial units or without spatial units in terms of substance; in terms of time it is open to alternative possibilities (bhajanā), and in terms of state it is open to alternative possibilities.
As in terms of space, so in terms of time and in terms of state.
That which is with spatial units in terms of substance may be with spatial units or without spatial units in terms of space; likewise also in terms of time and in terms of state.
That which is with spatial units in terms of space is necessarily with spatial units in terms of substance; in terms of time it is open to alternative possibilities, and in terms of state it is open to alternative possibilities.
As in terms of substance, so also in terms of time and in terms of state.
Among these pudgalas, Venerable Sir, in terms of substance, in terms of space, in terms of time, and in terms of state, whether with spatial units or without spatial units, which are fewer, greater, equal, or specifically greater than which?"
[Nirgranthīputra replied:] "O Nāradaputra, the pudgalas without spatial units in terms of state are the fewest of all; those without spatial units in terms of time are innumerably times more; those without spatial units in terms of substance are innumerably times more; those without spatial units in terms of space are innumerably times more; those with spatial units in terms of space are innumerably times more; those with spatial units in terms of substance are specifically greater; those with spatial units in terms of time are specifically greater; those with spatial units in terms of state are specifically greater."
Then that homeless ascetic Nāradaputra paid homage and bowed down to the homeless ascetic Nirgranthīputra; having paid homage and bowed down, he properly and with humility repeatedly begged forgiveness regarding this matter; having begged forgiveness, he lived cultivating his soul through self-restraint and austerity.

5.8.263

"Venerable Sir!" Saying thus, the venerable Gautama paid homage to and bowed before the ascetic Lord Mahāvīra, and having paid homage and bowed, spoke thus: "Venerable Sir! Do jīvas increase? Do they decrease? Are they constant?"
"Gautama! Jīvas do not increase, nor do they decrease; they are constant."
"Venerable Sir! Do inhabitants of hell increase? Do they decrease? Are they constant?"
"Gautama! Inhabitants of hell increase, decrease, and are also constant."
"As for the inhabitants of hell, so up to the Vaimānikas."
"Venerable Sir! Concerning the liberated souls, [the same] question."
"Gautama! Liberated souls increase, they do not decrease, and they are also constant."
"Venerable Sir! For how long a time are jīvas constant?"
"Gautama! For all time."
"Venerable Sir! For how long a time do inhabitants of hell increase?"
"Gautama! At a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for an innumerableth part of an āvalikā."
"So also they decrease."
"Venerable Sir! For how long a time are inhabitants of hell constant?"
"Gautama! At a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for twenty-four muhūrtas."
"In this way, their increasing and decreasing should be stated for all seven earths, with this difference only regarding their being constant: namely, in the Ratnaprabhā earth, forty-eight muhūrtas; in the Śarkarāprabhā, fourteen day-and-nights; in the Vālukāprabhā, one month; in the Paṅkaprabhā, two months; in the Dhūmaprabhā, four months; in the Tamā, eight months; in the Tamastamā, twelve months."
"Asurakumāras also increase and decrease like the inhabitants of hell. They are constant at a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for forty-eight muhūrtas."
"So also for all ten classes [of Bhavanapatis]."
"One-sensed beings increase, decrease, and are also constant. In all three of these, at a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for an innumerableth part of an āvalikā."
"Two-sensed beings increase and decrease in the same way; they are constant at a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for two antarmuhūrtas."
"So up to four-sensed beings."
"All remaining beings increase and decrease in the same way, with this difference regarding their being constant, namely: for spontaneously generated five-sensed animals, two antarmuhūrtas; for womb-born animals, twenty-four muhūrtas; for spontaneously generated humans, forty-eight muhūrtas; for womb-born humans, twenty-four muhūrtas; among the Vāṇamantaras, Jyotiṣkas, Saudharma, and Īśāna [gods], forty-eight muhūrtas; in Sanatkumāra, eighteen day-and-nights and forty muhūrtas; in Māhendra, twenty-four day-and-nights and twenty muhūrtas; in Brahmaloka, forty-five day-and-nights; in Lāntaka, ninety day-and-nights; in Mahāśukra, one hundred and sixty day-and-nights; in Sahasrāra, two hundred day-and-nights; for Ānata and Prāṇata, a countable number of months; for Āraṇa and Acyuta, a countable number of years; similarly for the Graiveyaka gods; for Vijaya, Vaijayanta, Jayanta, and Aparājita, innumerable thousands of years; in Sarvārthasiddha, a countable part of a palyopama."
"It should be stated thus: they increase and decrease at a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for an innumerableth part of an āvalikā; for their being constant, as has been said."
"Venerable Sir! For how long a time do the liberated souls increase?"
"Gautama! At a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for eight samayas."
"For how long a time are they constant?"
"Gautama! At a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for six months."
"Venerable Sir! Are jīvas with increase? With decrease? With increase and decrease? Devoid of increase and devoid of decrease?"
"Gautama! Jīvas are not with increase, not with decrease, not with increase and decrease; they are devoid of increase and devoid of decrease."
"One-sensed beings are in the third case; all remaining jīvas should be stated with all four cases."
"Venerable Sir! Concerning the liberated souls, [the same] question."
"Gautama! Liberated souls are with increase, not with decrease, not with increase and decrease; they are devoid of increase and devoid of decrease."
"Venerable Sir! For how long a time are jīvas devoid of increase and devoid of decrease?"
"Gautama! For all time."
"Venerable Sir! For how long a time are inhabitants of hell with increase?"
"Gautama! At a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for an innumerableth part of an āvalikā."
"For how long a time are they with decrease?"
"Just the same."
"For how long a time are they with increase and decrease?"
"Just the same."
"For how long a time are they devoid of increase and devoid of decrease?"
"Gautama! At a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for twelve muhūrtas."
"All one-sensed beings are with increase and decrease for all time. All the rest are with increase, with decrease, and with increase and decrease at a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for an innumerableth part of an āvalikā. For their being constant, the interval of transmigration should be stated."
"Venerable Sir! For how long a time are liberated souls with increase?"
"Gautama! At a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for eight samayas."
"For how long a time are they devoid of increase and devoid of decrease?"
"At a minimum for one samaya, at a maximum for six months."
"So it is, Venerable Sir! So it is, Venerable Sir!"

Translations (2)

Commentaries (2)

Linked texts (1)