廣弘明集 21.38

21.38

招提寺慧琰諮曰。未審法身無相不應有體。何得用體以釋身義。令旨答。無名無相乃無體可論。寄以名相不無妙體。又諮。若寄以名相不無妙體。則寄以名相不成無相。令旨答。既云寄以名相。足明理實無相。又諮。若寄以名相而理實無相。理既無相云何有體。令旨答。寄言軌物何得無體。又諮。亦應寄言軌物。非復無相。令旨答。軌物義邊理非無相。所言無相本談妙體。又諮。真實本來無相。正應以此軌物。何得隱斯真實。強生言相。令旨答。真實無相非近學所窺。是故接諸膚淺。必須寄以言相。

Huiyan of Zhaoti Temple inquired, saying: "I do not know: the dharmakāya is signless and should not have substance. How can one use 'substance' to explain the meaning of 'body'?"
The Prince's decree replied: "In the absence of names and signs, there is indeed no substance to discuss; provisionally using names and signs, it is not without a wondrous substance."
He further inquired: "If provisionally using names and signs it is not without a wondrous substance, then provisionally using names and signs does not constitute signlessness."
The decree replied: "Since it is said to provisionally use names and signs, this sufficiently clarifies that the principle is truly signless."
He further inquired: "If names and signs are provisionally used while the principle is truly signless, then since the principle is signless, how can it have substance?"
The decree replied: "Provisionally speaking to provide a model for beings, how could it lack substance?"
He further inquired: "Then provisionally speaking to provide a model for beings should likewise no longer be signless."
The decree replied: "On the side of providing a model for beings, the principle is not non-signless; what is spoken of as signless originally discusses the wondrous substance."
He further inquired: "The real truth is fundamentally signless, and one should precisely use this to guide beings. How can one conceal this real truth and forcibly generate words and signs?"
The decree replied: "The real truth of signlessness is not something beginners can fathom. Therefore, to receive those of shallow understanding, one must provisionally rely on words and signs."