廣弘明集 21.38

21.38

Huiyan of Zhaoti Temple inquired, saying: "I do not know: the dharmakāya is signless and should not have substance. How can one use 'substance' to explain the meaning of 'body'?"
The Prince's decree replied: "In the absence of names and signs, there is indeed no substance to discuss; provisionally using names and signs, it is not without a wondrous substance."
He further inquired: "If provisionally using names and signs it is not without a wondrous substance, then provisionally using names and signs does not constitute signlessness."
The decree replied: "Since it is said to provisionally use names and signs, this sufficiently clarifies that the principle is truly signless."
He further inquired: "If names and signs are provisionally used while the principle is truly signless, then since the principle is signless, how can it have substance?"
The decree replied: "Provisionally speaking to provide a model for beings, how could it lack substance?"
He further inquired: "Then provisionally speaking to provide a model for beings should likewise no longer be signless."
The decree replied: "On the side of providing a model for beings, the principle is not non-signless; what is spoken of as signless originally discusses the wondrous substance."
He further inquired: "The real truth is fundamentally signless, and one should precisely use this to guide beings. How can one conceal this real truth and forcibly generate words and signs?"
The decree replied: "The real truth of signlessness is not something beginners can fathom. Therefore, to receive those of shallow understanding, one must provisionally rely on words and signs."