Kathavatthu 1.4: Odhisokathā

1.4.1.1

Odhisodhiso kilese jahatīti?

Does one abandon defilements part by part?

Controverted Point: That the converted man gives up the corruptions piecemeal.

1.4.1.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Controverted Point: That the converted man gives up the corruptions piecemeal.

1.4.1.3

Sotāpattiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dukkhadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of stream-entry abandon by the seeing of suffering?

Theravādin: You affirm this because, you say, when a person who has worked to realize the fruit of the First Path (Stream-Winning) wins insight into the nature of Ill and its cause, he gives up these three of the ten fetters—theory of a soul, doubt, and the contagion of mere rule and ritual—and the corruptions involved in these, in part; further, that when such a person wins insight into the cessation of Ill, he gives up the latter two of those fetters and the corruptions involved in them, in part; further, that when such a person wins insight into the Path leading to that cessation, he gives up those corruptions involved, in part.

1.4.1.4

Sakkāyadiṭṭhiṃ vicikicchaṃ sīlabbataparāmāsaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons identity view, doubt, grasping at precepts and vows, and in part the defilements standing on the same side with them.

1.4.1.5

Ekadesaṃ sotāpanno, ekadesaṃ na sotāpanno, ekadesaṃ sotāpattiphalappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ sattakkhattuparamo, kolaṅkolo, ekabījī, buddhe aveccappasādena samannāgato, dhamme …pe…

Is he in part a stream-enterer, in part not a stream-enterer; does he abide having attained, having reached, having arrived at, having realized, having entered upon the fruit of stream-entry in part, having directly touched it with the body; does he in part abide not having directly touched it with the body; is he in part one destined to seven more rebirths at most, one who goes from family to family, one who germinates once; is he endowed with unwavering confidence in the Buddha, in the Dhamma …pe…

1.4.1.6

saṅghe …pe…

in the Saṅgha …pe…

1.4.1.7

ariyakantehi sīlehi samannāgato ekadesaṃ ariyakantehi sīlehi na samannāgatoti?

endowed with the virtues dear to the noble ones, and in part not endowed with the virtues dear to the noble ones?

1.4.1.8

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

1.4.2.1

Samudayadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon by the seeing of origination?

1.4.2.2

Sakkāyadiṭṭhiṃ jahati, vicikicchaṃ sīlabbataparāmāsaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons identity view, and he abandons doubt, grasping at precepts and vows, and in part the defilements standing on the same side with them.

1.4.2.3

Ekadesaṃ sotāpanno, ekadesaṃ na sotāpanno …pe…

Is he in part a stream-enterer, in part not a stream-enterer …pe…

1.4.2.4

ekadesaṃ ariyakantehi sīlehi samannāgato, ekadesaṃ ariyakantehi sīlehi na samannāgatoti?

is he in part endowed with the virtues dear to the noble ones, in part not endowed with the virtues dear to the noble ones?

1.4.2.5

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

1.4.3.1

Nirodhadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon by the seeing of cessation?

1.4.3.2

Vicikicchaṃ sīlabbataparāmāsaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons doubt, grasping at precepts and vows, and in part the defilements standing on the same side with them.

1.4.3.3

Ekadesaṃ sotāpanno, ekadesaṃ na sotāpanno …pe…

Is he in part a stream-enterer, in part not a stream-enterer …pe…

1.4.3.4

ekadesaṃ ariyakantehi sīlehi samannāgato, ekadesaṃ ariyakantehi sīlehi na samannāgatoti?

is he in part endowed with the virtues dear to the noble ones, in part not endowed with the virtues dear to the noble ones?

1.4.3.5

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

1.4.4.1

Maggadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon by the seeing of the path?

1.4.4.2

Sīlabbataparāmāsaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese jahatīti.

He abandons grasping at precepts and vows, and the defilements standing on the same side with them.

1.4.4.3

Ekadesaṃ sotāpanno, ekadesaṃ na sotāpanno, ekadesaṃ sotāpattiphalappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ sattakkhattuparamo, kolaṅkolo, ekabījī, buddhe aveccappasādena samannāgato, dhamme …pe…

Is he in part a stream-enterer, in part not a stream-enterer; does he abide having attained, having reached, having arrived at, having realized, having entered upon the fruit of stream-entry in part, having directly touched it with the body; does he in part abide not having directly touched it with the body; is he in part one destined to seven more rebirths at most, one who goes from family to family, one who germinates once; is he endowed with unwavering confidence in the Buddha, in the Dhamma …pe…

But then you should also admit—what you deny—that one part of him is Stream-Winner, one part is not; that he attains, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with the fruition of Stream-Winning with one part of him, and not with the other part of him; that with one part only of him has he earned the destiny of but seven more rebirths, or the destiny to be well reborn only twice or thrice, as man or deva, or the destiny of but one more rebirth; that in one part of him only is he filled with faith in the Buddha, the Norm, the Order; that with one part only of him is he filled with virtues dear to Ariyans.

1.4.4.4

saṅghe …pe…

in the Saṅgha …pe…

But then you should also admit—what you deny—that one part of him is Stream-Winner, one part is not; that he attains, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with the fruition of Stream-Winning with one part of him, and not with the other part of him; that with one part only of him has he earned the destiny of but seven more rebirths, or the destiny to be well reborn only twice or thrice, as man or deva, or the destiny of but one more rebirth; that in one part of him only is he filled with faith in the Buddha, the Norm, the Order; that with one part only of him is he filled with virtues dear to Ariyans.

1.4.4.5

ariyakantehi sīlehi samannāgato, ekadesaṃ ariyakantehi sīlehi na samannāgatoti?

endowed with the virtues dear to the noble ones, in part not endowed with the virtues dear to the noble ones?

But then you should also admit—what you deny—that one part of him is Stream-Winner, one part is not; that he attains, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with the fruition of Stream-Winning with one part of him, and not with the other part of him; that with one part only of him has he earned the destiny of but seven more rebirths, or the destiny to be well reborn only twice or thrice, as man or deva, or the destiny of but one more rebirth; that in one part of him only is he filled with faith in the Buddha, the Norm, the Order; that with one part only of him is he filled with virtues dear to Ariyans.

1.4.4.6

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

But then you should also admit—what you deny—that one part of him is Stream-Winner, one part is not; that he attains, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with the fruition of Stream-Winning with one part of him, and not with the other part of him; that with one part only of him has he earned the destiny of but seven more rebirths, or the destiny to be well reborn only twice or thrice, as man or deva, or the destiny of but one more rebirth; that in one part of him only is he filled with faith in the Buddha, the Norm, the Order; that with one part only of him is he filled with virtues dear to Ariyans.

1.4.5.1

Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dukkhadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of once-returning abandon by the seeing of suffering?

Again, you say, that when a person who has worked to realize the fruition of the Once-Returner, wins insight into the nature of Ill and its cause, he gives up gross sensuous passions, the coarser forms of ill-will, and the corruptions involved in these, in part; further, that when such a person wins insight into the cessation of Ill, he gives up the coarser forms of ill-will and the corruptions involved therewith, in part; further, that when such a person wins insight into the Path leading to the cessation of Ill, he gives up the corruptions referred to.

1.4.5.2

Oḷārikaṃ kāmarāgaṃ jahati, oḷārikaṃ byāpādaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons gross sensual lust, gross ill will, and in part the defilements standing on the same side with them.

1.4.5.3

Ekadesaṃ sakadāgāmī, ekadesaṃ na sakadāgāmī, ekadesaṃ sakadāgāmiphalappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharatīti?

Is he partly a once-returner, partly not a once-returner; has he partly attained, obtained, arrived at, realized the fruit of once-returning, and does he abide having entered upon it, does he abide having touched it with the body, and partly does he abide not having touched it with the body?

1.4.5.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

1.4.6.1

Samudayadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon through the vision of the origin [of suffering]?

1.4.6.2

Oḷārikaṃ kāmarāgaṃ jahati, oḷārikaṃ byāpādaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons coarse sensual lust, coarse ill will, and in part he abandons the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.6.3

Ekadesaṃ sakadāgāmī, ekadesaṃ na sakadāgāmī, ekadesaṃ sakadāgāmiphalappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharatīti?

Is he partly a once-returner, partly not a once-returner; has he partly attained, obtained, arrived at, realized the fruit of once-returning, and does he abide having entered upon it, does he abide having touched it with the body, and partly does he abide not having touched it with the body?

1.4.6.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

1.4.7.1

Nirodhadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon through the vision of cessation?

1.4.7.2

Oḷārikaṃ byāpādaṃ jahati, tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons coarse ill will, and in part he abandons the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.7.3

Ekadesaṃ sakadāgāmī, ekadesaṃ na sakadāgāmī, ekadesaṃ sakadāgāmiphalappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharatīti?

Is he partly a once-returner, partly not a once-returner; has he partly attained, obtained, arrived at, realized the fruit of once-returning, and does he abide having entered upon it, does he abide having touched it with the body, and partly does he abide not having touched it with the body?

1.4.7.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

1.4.8.1

Maggadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon through the vision of the path?

1.4.8.2

Oḷārikaṃ byāpādaṃ jahati, tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese jahatīti.

He abandons coarse ill will, and he abandons the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.8.3

Ekadesaṃ sakadāgāmī, ekadesaṃ na sakadāgāmī, ekadesaṃ sakadāgāmiphalappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharatīti?

Is he partly a once-returner, partly not a once-returner; has he partly attained, obtained, arrived at, realized the fruit of once-returning, and does he abide having entered upon it, does he abide having touched it with the body, and partly does he abide not having touched it with the body?

But then you should also admit—which you deny—that one part of him is Once-Returner, one part is not; that he attains, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with the fruition of the Once-Returner, with one part of him and not with the other part.

1.4.8.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

But then you should also admit—which you deny—that one part of him is Once-Returner, one part is not; that he attains, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with the fruition of the Once-Returner, with one part of him and not with the other part.

1.4.9.1

Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dukkhadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does a person practicing for the realization of the fruit of non-returning abandon through the vision of suffering?

Again, you say, that when a person who has worked to realize the fruition of the Never-Returner, wins insight into the nature of Ill and its cause, he gives up the little residuum of sensuous passion, the little residuum of ill-will and the corruptions involved therewith, in part; further, that when such a person wins insight into the cessation of Ill, he gives up the little residuum of ill-will and the corruptions involved therewith, in part; further, that when he wins insight into the path leading to the cessation of Ill, he gives up the corruptions aforenamed in part.

1.4.9.2

Aṇusahagataṃ kāmarāgaṃ jahati, aṇusahagataṃ byāpādaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons subtle sensual lust, subtle ill will, and in part he abandons the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.9.3

Ekadesaṃ anāgāmī, ekadesaṃ na anāgāmī, ekadesaṃ anāgāmiphalappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ antarāparinibbāyī, upahaccaparinibbāyī, asaṅkhāraparinibbāyī, sasaṅkhāraparinibbāyī, uddhaṃsoto akaniṭṭhagāmī, ekadesaṃ na uddhaṃsoto akaniṭṭhagāmīti?

Is he partly a non-returner, partly not a non-returner; has he partly attained, obtained, arrived at, realized the fruit of non-returning, and does he abide having entered upon it, does he abide having touched it with the body, and partly does he abide not having touched it with the body; is he partly one who attains parinibbāna in the interval, one who attains parinibbāna upon landing, one who attains parinibbāna without volitional exertion, one who attains parinibbāna with volitional exertion, one who streams upward bound for the Akanittha realm, and partly is he not one who streams upward bound for the Akanittha realm?

1.4.9.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

1.4.10.1

Samudayadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon through the vision of the origin [of suffering]?

1.4.10.2

Aṇusahagataṃ kāmarāgaṃ jahati, aṇusahagataṃ byāpādaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons subtle sensual lust, subtle ill will, and in part he abandons the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.10.3

Ekadesaṃ anāgāmī, ekadesaṃ na anāgāmī …pe…

Is he partly a non-returner, partly not a non-returner …pe…

1.4.10.4

ekadesaṃ uddhaṃsoto akaniṭṭhagāmī, ekadesaṃ na uddhaṃsoto akaniṭṭhagāmīti?

is he partly one who streams upward bound for the Akanittha realm, and partly is he not one who streams upward bound for the Akanittha realm?

1.4.10.5

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

1.4.11.1

Nirodhadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon through the vision of cessation?

1.4.11.2

Aṇusahagataṃ byāpādaṃ jahati, tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons subtle ill will, and in part he abandons the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.11.3

Ekadesaṃ anāgāmī, ekadesaṃ na anāgāmī …pe…

Is he partly a non-returner, partly not a non-returner …pe…

1.4.11.4

ekadesaṃ uddhaṃsoto akaniṭṭhagāmī, ekadesaṃ na uddhaṃsoto akaniṭṭhagāmīti?

is he partly one who streams upward bound for the Akanittha realm, and partly is he not one who streams upward bound for the Akanittha realm?

1.4.11.5

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

1.4.12.1

Maggadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon through the vision of the path?

1.4.12.2

Tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese jahatīti.

He abandons the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.12.3

Ekadesaṃ anāgāmī, ekadesaṃ na anāgāmī, ekadesaṃ anāgāmiphalappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ antarāparinibbāyī, upahaccaparinibbāyī, asaṅkhāraparinibbāyī, sasaṅkhāraparinibbāyī, uddhaṃsoto akaniṭṭhagāmī, ekadesaṃ na uddhaṃsoto akaniṭṭhagāmīti?

Is he partly a non-returner, partly not a non-returner; has he partly attained, obtained, arrived at, realized the fruit of non-returning, and does he abide having entered upon it, does he abide having touched it with the body, and partly does he abide not having touched it with the body; is he partly one who attains parinibbāna in the interval, one who attains parinibbāna upon landing, one who attains parinibbāna without volitional exertion, one who attains parinibbāna with volitional exertion, one who streams upward bound for the Akanittha realm, and partly is he not one who streams upward bound for the Akanittha realm?

But then you must also admit—which you deny—that one part of him is Never-Returner, one part is not; that he attains, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with the fruition of the Never-Returner with one part of him, and not with the other part of him; that with one part of him only does he complete existence within the term between birth and middle life, or within the term between middle life and death, or without external instigation, or with it; that with one part of him only does he become “an upstreamer”, bound for the senior deva-world, and not with the other part of him.

1.4.12.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

But then you must also admit—which you deny—that one part of him is Never-Returner, one part is not; that he attains, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with the fruition of the Never-Returner with one part of him, and not with the other part of him; that with one part of him only does he complete existence within the term between birth and middle life, or within the term between middle life and death, or without external instigation, or with it; that with one part of him only does he become “an upstreamer”, bound for the senior deva-world, and not with the other part of him.

1.4.13.1

Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dukkhadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does a person practicing for the realization of arahantship abandon through the vision of suffering?

Again, you say that when a person who has worked to realize Arahantship wins insight into the nature of Ill and its cause, he gives up the lust of life with material quality, the lust of life of immaterial quality, conceit, distraction, ignorance, and the corruptions involved therein, in part; further, that when such an one wins insight into the cessation of Ill, he gives up the last three of those fetters and the corruptions involved therein, in part; further, that when he wins insight into the path leading to the cessation of Ill, he gives up the last two of those fetters—distraction and ignorance—and the corruptions involved in them, in part.

1.4.13.2

Rūparāgaṃ arūparāgaṃ mānaṃ uddhaccaṃ avijjaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons lust for form, lust for the formless, conceit, restlessness, ignorance, and in part he abandons the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.13.3

Ekadesaṃ arahā, ekadesaṃ na arahā, ekadesaṃ arahattappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ vītarāgo vītadoso vītamoho katakaraṇīyo ohitabhāro anuppattasadattho parikkhīṇabhavasaṃyojano sammadaññāvimutto ukkhittapaligho saṅkiṇṇaparikho abbūḷhesiko niraggaḷo ariyo pannaddhajo pannabhāro visaññutto suvijitavijayo, dukkhaṃ tassa pariññātaṃ, samudayo pahīno, nirodho sacchikato, maggo bhāvito, abhiññeyyaṃ abhiññātaṃ, pariññeyyaṃ pariññātaṃ, pahātabbaṃ pahīnaṃ, bhāvetabbaṃ bhāvitaṃ, sacchikātabbaṃ sacchikataṃ, (ekadesaṃ sacchikātabbaṃ sacchikataṃ) ekadesaṃ sacchikātabbaṃ na sacchikatanti?

Is he partly an arahant, partly not an arahant; has he partly attained, obtained, arrived at, realized arahantship, and does he abide having entered upon it, does he abide having touched it with the body, and partly does he abide not having touched it with the body; is he partly free from lust, free from hatred, free from delusion, one who has done what was to be done, laid down the burden, attained his own goal, completely destroyed the fetters of existence, liberated through right knowledge, with bar lifted, moat filled, pillar pulled up, unbolted, noble, with flag lowered, burden cast down, disjoined, having completely won the victory; for him suffering is fully known, the origin is abandoned, cessation is realized, the path is cultivated; what is to be directly known has been directly known, what is to be fully known has been fully known, what is to be abandoned has been abandoned, what is to be cultivated has been cultivated, what is to be realized has been realized; has what is to be realized partly been realized, and has what is to be realized partly not been realized?

1.4.13.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

1.4.14.1

Samudayadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon through the vision of the origin [of suffering]?

1.4.14.2

Rūparāgaṃ arūparāgaṃ jahati, mānaṃ uddhaccaṃ avijjaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons lust for form, lust for the formless, and in part he abandons conceit, restlessness, ignorance, and the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.14.3

Ekadesaṃ arahā, ekadesaṃ na arahā …pe…

Is he partly an arahant, partly not an arahant …pe…

1.4.14.4

ekadesaṃ sacchikātabbaṃ sacchikataṃ, ekadesaṃ sacchikātabbaṃ na sacchikatanti?

has what is to be realized partly been realized, and has what is to be realized partly not been realized?

1.4.14.5

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

1.4.15.1

Nirodhadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon through the vision of cessation?

1.4.15.2

Mānaṃ jahati, uddhaccaṃ avijjaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese ekadese jahatīti.

He abandons conceit, and in part he abandons restlessness, ignorance, and the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.15.3

Ekadesaṃ arahā, ekadesaṃ na arahā …pe…

Is he partly an arahant, partly not an arahant …pe…

1.4.15.4

ekadesaṃ sacchikātabbaṃ sacchikataṃ, ekadesaṃ sacchikātabbaṃ na sacchikatanti?

has what is to be realized partly been realized, and has what is to be realized partly not been realized?

1.4.15.5

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

1.4.16.1

Maggadassanena kiṃ jahatīti?

What does he abandon through the vision of the path?

1.4.16.2

Uddhaccaṃ avijjaṃ tadekaṭṭhe ca kilese jahatīti.

He abandons restlessness, ignorance, and the defilements situated alongside them.

1.4.16.3

Ekadesaṃ arahā, ekadesaṃ na arahā, ekadesaṃ arahattappatto paṭiladdho adhigato sacchikato upasampajja viharati, kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ na kāyena phusitvā viharati, ekadesaṃ vītarāgo vītadoso vītamoho katakaraṇīyo ohitabhāro anuppattasadattho parikkhīṇabhavasaṃyojano sammadaññāvimutto ukkhittapaligho saṅkiṇṇaparikho abbūḷhesiko niraggaḷo ariyo pannaddhajo pannabhāro visaññutto suvijitavijayo, dukkhaṃ tassa pariññātaṃ, samudayo pahīno, nirodho sacchikato, maggo bhāvito, abhiññeyyaṃ abhiññātaṃ, pariññeyyaṃ pariññātaṃ, pahātabbaṃ pahīnaṃ, bhāvetabbaṃ bhāvitaṃ, sacchikātabbaṃ sacchikataṃ, ekadesaṃ sacchikātabbaṃ sacchikataṃ, ekadesaṃ sacchikātabbaṃ na sacchikatanti?

[Is he] in part an arahant, in part not an arahant; having in part attained, obtained, arrived at, realized arahantship, does he dwell having entered upon it, dwell having touched it with the body; does he in part not dwell having touched it with the body; is he in part free from lust, free from hatred, free from delusion, one who has done what was to be done, laid down the burden, attained his own goal, destroyed the fetters of existence, completely liberated through right knowledge, with cross-bar lifted, trench filled in, pillar uprooted, bolt withdrawn, a noble one, flag lowered, burden laid down, unfettered, conqueror of the victory well won; is suffering fully known by him, the origin abandoned, cessation realized, the path developed, what is to be directly known directly known, what is to be fully known fully known, what is to be abandoned abandoned, what is to be developed developed, what is to be realized realized; is what is to be realized in part realized, [and] what is to be realized in part not realized?

But then you must also admit—what you deny—that one part of him is Arahant, and one part is not; that he attains to, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with Arahantship with one part of him, and not with the other part of him; that with one part only has he done with passions, hate, dullness; that with one part only has he “done that which was to be done”, “got rid of the burden”, “won the good supreme”, “wholly destroyed the fetter of becoming”, with one part only is he emancipated by perfect knowledge, is “one for whom the bar is thrown up”, “the trenches are filled”, “one who has drawn out”, “for whom there is no lock or bolt”, with one part only is he Ariyan, “with lowered banner”, “with burden fallen”, “detached”, “conqueror of a realm well conquered”, with one part only has he understood Ill, put away its cause, realized its cessation, practised the path, comprehended that which is to be comprehended, learnt that which should be learnt, put away that which is to be eliminated, developed that which is to be developed, realized that which may be realized, and not any of this with the other part.

1.4.16.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

But then you must also admit—what you deny—that one part of him is Arahant, and one part is not; that he attains to, obtains, reaches up to, lives in the realization of, enters into personal contact with Arahantship with one part of him, and not with the other part of him; that with one part only has he done with passions, hate, dullness; that with one part only has he “done that which was to be done”, “got rid of the burden”, “won the good supreme”, “wholly destroyed the fetter of becoming”, with one part only is he emancipated by perfect knowledge, is “one for whom the bar is thrown up”, “the trenches are filled”, “one who has drawn out”, “for whom there is no lock or bolt”, with one part only is he Ariyan, “with lowered banner”, “with burden fallen”, “detached”, “conqueror of a realm well conquered”, with one part only has he understood Ill, put away its cause, realized its cessation, practised the path, comprehended that which is to be comprehended, learnt that which should be learnt, put away that which is to be eliminated, developed that which is to be developed, realized that which may be realized, and not any of this with the other part.

1.4.17.1

Na vattabbaṃ—

Should it not be said:

Sammitiya: But if it be wrong to deny that my thesis is true, why did the Exalted One say thus:

1.4.17.2

“odhisodhiso kilese jahatī”ti?

“He abandons defilements section by section”?

Sammitiya: But if it be wrong to deny that my thesis is true, why did the Exalted One say thus:

1.4.17.3

Āmantā.

Yes.

Sammitiya: But if it be wrong to deny that my thesis is true, why did the Exalted One say thus:

1.4.17.4

Nanu vuttaṃ bhagavatā—

Was it not said by the Blessed One:

Sammitiya: But if it be wrong to deny that my thesis is true, why did the Exalted One say thus:

1.4.18.1

“Anupubbena medhāvī,

“Little by little, the wise man,

“Little by little, one by one, as pass
The moments, gradually let the wise,
Like smith the blemishes of silver, blow
The specks that mar his purity away”?

1.4.18.2

thokaṃ thokaṃ khaṇe khaṇe;

moment by moment, bit by bit;

“Little by little, one by one, as pass
The moments, gradually let the wise,
Like smith the blemishes of silver, blow
The specks that mar his purity away”?

1.4.18.3

Kammāro rajatasseva,

Just like a smith with silver,

“Little by little, one by one, as pass
The moments, gradually let the wise,
Like smith the blemishes of silver, blow
The specks that mar his purity away”?

1.4.18.4

niddhame malamattano”ti.

should blow away the blemish of himself”?

“Little by little, one by one, as pass
The moments, gradually let the wise,
Like smith the blemishes of silver, blow
The specks that mar his purity away”?

1.4.19.1

Attheva suttantoti?

Does such a discourse exist?

Is the Suttanta thus? Does this not justify my answering “Yes”?

1.4.19.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Is the Suttanta thus? Does this not justify my answering “Yes”?

1.4.19.3

Tena hi na vattabbaṃ—

Therefore indeed it should not be said:

Is the Suttanta thus? Does this not justify my answering “Yes”?

1.4.19.4

“odhisodhiso kilese jahatī”ti.

“He abandons defilements section by section”?

Is the Suttanta thus? Does this not justify my answering “Yes”?

1.4.20.1

Odhisodhiso kilese jahatīti?

Does he abandon defilements section by section?

Theravādin: But was it not said by the Exalted One

1.4.20.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Theravādin: But was it not said by the Exalted One

1.4.20.3

Nanu vuttaṃ bhagavatā—

Was it not said by the Blessed One:

Theravādin: But was it not said by the Exalted One

1.4.21.1

“Sahāvassa dassanasampadāya,

“Together with his attainment of vision,

“For him, e'en as insight doth come to pass,
Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:
Belief that in him dwells a soul, and doubt,
And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.
Both from the fourfold doom is he released,
And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?

1.4.21.2

Tayassu dhammā jahitā bhavanti;

Three states are abandoned by him:

“For him, e'en as insight doth come to pass,
Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:
Belief that in him dwells a soul, and doubt,
And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.
Both from the fourfold doom is he released,
And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?

1.4.21.3

Sakkāyadiṭṭhī vicikicchitañca,

Identity view and doubt,

“For him, e'en as insight doth come to pass,
Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:
Belief that in him dwells a soul, and doubt,
And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.
Both from the fourfold doom is he released,
And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?

1.4.21.4

Sīlabbataṃ vāpi yadatthi kiñci;

And whatever adherence to rules and observances there is;

“For him, e'en as insight doth come to pass,
Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:
Belief that in him dwells a soul, and doubt,
And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.
Both from the fourfold doom is he released,
And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?

1.4.21.5

Catūhapāyehi ca vippamutto,

And he is fully released from the four states of woe,

“For him, e'en as insight doth come to pass,
Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:
Belief that in him dwells a soul, and doubt,
And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.
Both from the fourfold doom is he released,
And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?

1.4.21.6

Chaccābhiṭhānāni abhabba kātun”ti.

And incapable of committing the six great transgressions”?

“For him, e'en as insight doth come to pass,
Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:
Belief that in him dwells a soul, and doubt,
And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.
Both from the fourfold doom is he released,
And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?

1.4.22.1

Attheva suttantoti?

Does such a discourse exist?

Is the Suttanta thus?

1.4.22.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Is the Suttanta thus?

1.4.22.3

Tena hi na vattabbaṃ—

Therefore indeed it should not be said:

Is the Suttanta thus?

1.4.22.4

“odhisodhiso kilese jahatī”ti.

“He abandons defilements section by section”.

Is the Suttanta thus?

1.4.23.1

Odhisodhiso kilese jahatīti?

Does he abandon defilements section by section?

Again, was it not said by the Exalted One:

1.4.23.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Again, was it not said by the Exalted One:

1.4.23.3

Nanu vuttaṃ bhagavatā—

Was it not said by the Blessed One:

Again, was it not said by the Exalted One:

1.4.23.4

“yasmiṃ, bhikkhave, samaye ariyasāvakassa virajaṃ vītamalaṃ dhammacakkhuṃ udapādi—

“At what time, monks, the dustless, stainless eye of the Dhamma arose in the noble disciple:

“Whenever, O bhikkhus, for the Ariyan disciple there doth arise the stainless, flawless Eye of the Norm—that whatsoever by its nature may happen, may also by its nature cease—then with the arising of that vision doth he put away these three fetters: belief in a soul, doubt, and the contagion of mere rule and ritual”?

1.4.23.5

‘yaṃ kiñci samudayadhammaṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ nirodhadhamman’ti, saha dassanuppādā, bhikkhave, ariyasāvakassa tīṇi saṃyojanāni pahīyanti—

‘Whatever is subject to origination, all that is subject to cessation,’ together with the arising of vision, monks, three fetters are abandoned by the noble disciple:

“Whenever, O bhikkhus, for the Ariyan disciple there doth arise the stainless, flawless Eye of the Norm—that whatsoever by its nature may happen, may also by its nature cease—then with the arising of that vision doth he put away these three fetters: belief in a soul, doubt, and the contagion of mere rule and ritual”?

1.4.23.6

sakkāyadiṭṭhi vicikicchā sīlabbataparāmāso”ti.

identity view, doubt, and adherence to rules and observances”?

“Whenever, O bhikkhus, for the Ariyan disciple there doth arise the stainless, flawless Eye of the Norm—that whatsoever by its nature may happen, may also by its nature cease—then with the arising of that vision doth he put away these three fetters: belief in a soul, doubt, and the contagion of mere rule and ritual”?

1.4.23.7

Attheva suttantoti?

Does such a discourse exist?

Is the Suttanta thus? Hence it must not be said that the religious man gives up the corruptions piecemeal.

1.4.23.8

Āmantā.

Yes.

Is the Suttanta thus? Hence it must not be said that the religious man gives up the corruptions piecemeal.

1.4.23.9

Tena hi na vattabbaṃ—

Therefore indeed it should not be said:

Is the Suttanta thus? Hence it must not be said that the religious man gives up the corruptions piecemeal.

1.4.23.10

“odhisodhiso kilese jahatī”ti.

“He abandons defilements section by section”.

Is the Suttanta thus? Hence it must not be said that the religious man gives up the corruptions piecemeal.

1.4.23.11

Odhisokathā niṭṭhitā.

Discussion on section by section is finished.