Kathavatthu 9.7: Vitakkānupatitakathā

9.7.1.1

Sabbaṃ cittaṃ vitakkānupatitanti?

Is all consciousness accompanied by applied thought?

Controverted Point: That initial mental application “falls” on all consciousness.

9.7.1.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Controverted Point: That initial mental application “falls” on all consciousness.

9.7.1.3

Sabbaṃ cittaṃ vicārānupatitaṃ pītānupatitaṃ sukhānupatitaṃ dukkhānupatitaṃ somanassānupatitaṃ domanassānupatitaṃ upekkhānupatitaṃ saddhānupatitaṃ vīriyānupatitaṃ satānupatitaṃ samādhānupatitaṃ paññānupatitaṃ rāgānupatitaṃ dosānupatitaṃ …pe…

Is all consciousness accompanied by sustained thought, accompanied by rapture, accompanied by pleasure, accompanied by pain, accompanied by mental joy, accompanied by mental grief, accompanied by equanimity, accompanied by faith, accompanied by energy, accompanied by mindfulness, accompanied by immersion, accompanied by wisdom, accompanied by lust, accompanied by hatred …pe…

Theravādin: If that is true, you must also be prepared to admit in detail that other mental properties sustained application, zest, pleasure, pain, gladness, melancholy, indifference, faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, understanding, lust, hate … indiscretion fall on (or operate in) all consciousness. But you are not so prepared … .

9.7.1.4

anottappānupatitanti?

accompanied by lack of moral dread?

Theravādin: If that is true, you must also be prepared to admit in detail that other mental properties sustained application, zest, pleasure, pain, gladness, melancholy, indifference, faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, understanding, lust, hate … indiscretion fall on (or operate in) all consciousness. But you are not so prepared … .

9.7.1.5

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …pe….

Theravādin: If that is true, you must also be prepared to admit in detail that other mental properties sustained application, zest, pleasure, pain, gladness, melancholy, indifference, faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, understanding, lust, hate … indiscretion fall on (or operate in) all consciousness. But you are not so prepared … .

9.7.2.1

Sabbaṃ cittaṃ vitakkānupatitanti?

Is all consciousness accompanied by applied thought?

Contrariwise, is there not concentration with sustained application only, not initial application; also concentration wherein there is neither kind of application? Were not, in fact, three kinds of concentrative exercise distinguished by the Exalted One: (1) With both modes of application; (2) with the sustained mode only; (3) with neither?

9.7.2.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

9.7.2.3

Nanu atthi avitakko vicāramatto samādhīti?

Is there not immersion without applied thought, with only sustained thought?

9.7.2.4

Āmantā.

Yes.

9.7.2.5

Hañci atthi avitakko vicāramatto samādhi, no ca vata re vattabbe—

If there is immersion without applied thought, with only sustained thought, then surely it should not be said—

9.7.2.6

“sabbaṃ cittaṃ vitakkānupatitan”ti.

“All consciousness is accompanied by applied thought.”

9.7.3.1

Sabbaṃ cittaṃ vitakkānupatitanti?

Is all consciousness accompanied by applied thought?

9.7.3.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

9.7.3.3

Nanu atthi avitakko avicāro samādhīti?

Is there not concentration without thought and without examination?

9.7.3.4

Āmantā.

Yes.

9.7.3.5

Hañci atthi avitakko avicāro samādhi, no ca vata re vattabbe—

If there is concentration without thought and without examination, then indeed one should not say:

9.7.3.6

“sabbaṃ cittaṃ vitakkānupatitan”ti.

“All consciousness is accompanied by thought.”

9.7.3.7

Sabbaṃ cittaṃ vitakkānupatitanti?

Is all consciousness accompanied by thought?

9.7.3.8

Āmantā.

Yes.

9.7.3.9

Nanu tayo samādhī vuttā bhagavatā—

Were not three concentrations spoken of by the Blessed One:

9.7.3.10

“savitakko savicāro samādhi, avitakko vicāramatto samādhi, avitakko avicāro samādhī”ti?

“Concentration with thought and with examination, concentration without thought with examination only, concentration without thought and without examination”?

9.7.3.11

Āmantā.

Yes.

9.7.3.12

Hañci tayo samādhī vuttā bhagavatā—

If three concentrations were spoken of by the Blessed One—

Hence your proposition is wrong.

9.7.3.13

savitakko savicāro samādhi, avitakko vicāramatto samādhi, avitakko avicāro samādhi, no ca vata re vattabbe—

concentration with thought and with examination, concentration without thought with examination only, concentration without thought and without examination—then indeed one should not say:

Hence your proposition is wrong.

9.7.3.14

“sabbaṃ cittaṃ vitakkānupatitan”ti.

“All consciousness is accompanied by thought.”

Hence your proposition is wrong.

9.7.3.15

Vitakkānupatitakathā niṭṭhitā.

The discussion on accompanied by thought is finished.