Kathavatthu 10.2: Rūpaṃmaggotikathā
Kathāvatthu 10.2
- Language
- Pāli
Contents
- 10.2.1 — 9 parts
- 10.2.2 — 9 parts
- 10.2.3 — 10 parts
- 10.2.4 — 12 parts
- 10.2.5 — 9 parts
- 10.2.6 — 9 parts
- 10.2.7 — 6 parts
- 10.2.8 — 8 parts
Rūpaṃmaggotikathā
10.2.1.1
Maggasamaṅgissa rūpaṃ maggoti?
Is the material form of one endowed with the path the path?
Controverted Point: That the physical frame of one who is practising the Eightfold Path is included in that Path.
10.2.1.2
Āmantā.
Yes.
Controverted Point: That the physical frame of one who is practising the Eightfold Path is included in that Path.
10.2.1.3
Sārammaṇaṃ, atthi tassa āvaṭṭanā ābhogo samannāhāro manasikāro cetanā patthanā paṇidhīti?
Does it have an object, does it have turning towards, advertence, application, attention, volition, aspiration, resolve?
Theravādin: You must then be prepared to affirm also that bodily form is like the Path-factors subjective, having the mental attributes of adverting, ideating, co-ordinated application, attending, volition, anticipating, aiming. You deny this and rightly, for surely the opposite is true.
10.2.1.4
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe…
It should not be said thus …pe…
Theravādin: You must then be prepared to affirm also that bodily form is like the Path-factors subjective, having the mental attributes of adverting, ideating, co-ordinated application, attending, volition, anticipating, aiming. You deny this and rightly, for surely the opposite is true.
10.2.1.5
nanu anārammaṇaṃ, natthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Does it not lack an object, does it not lack turning towards …pe… resolve?
Theravādin: You must then be prepared to affirm also that bodily form is like the Path-factors subjective, having the mental attributes of adverting, ideating, co-ordinated application, attending, volition, anticipating, aiming. You deny this and rightly, for surely the opposite is true.
10.2.1.6
Āmantā.
Yes.
Theravādin: You must then be prepared to affirm also that bodily form is like the Path-factors subjective, having the mental attributes of adverting, ideating, co-ordinated application, attending, volition, anticipating, aiming. You deny this and rightly, for surely the opposite is true.
10.2.1.7
Hañci anārammaṇaṃ, natthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhi;
If it lacks an object, lacks turning towards …pe… resolve,
Theravādin: You must then be prepared to affirm also that bodily form is like the Path-factors subjective, having the mental attributes of adverting, ideating, co-ordinated application, attending, volition, anticipating, aiming. You deny this and rightly, for surely the opposite is true.
10.2.1.8
no ca vata re vattabbe—
then indeed you should not say:
Theravādin: You must then be prepared to affirm also that bodily form is like the Path-factors subjective, having the mental attributes of adverting, ideating, co-ordinated application, attending, volition, anticipating, aiming. You deny this and rightly, for surely the opposite is true.
10.2.1.9
“maggasamaṅgissa rūpaṃ maggo”ti.
“The material form of one endowed with the path is the path.”
Theravādin: You must then be prepared to affirm also that bodily form is like the Path-factors subjective, having the mental attributes of adverting, ideating, co-ordinated application, attending, volition, anticipating, aiming. You deny this and rightly, for surely the opposite is true.
10.2.2.1
Sammāvācā maggoti?
Is right speech the path?
The three factors of the Path in which you deem things corporeal to be included—supremely right speech, action, livelihood—these, you affirm, are not subjective, not having the mental attributes above-named. But the other five factors of the Path—supremely right views, aspiration, endeavour, mindfulness, concentration—these, you admit, are subjective, and have the mental attributes above-named.
10.2.2.2
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.2.3
Sārammaṇā, atthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Does it have an object, does it have turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.2.4
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe…
It should not be said thus …pe…
10.2.2.5
nanu anārammaṇā, natthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Does it not lack an object, does it not lack turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.2.6
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.2.7
Hañci anārammaṇā, natthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhi;
If it lacks an object, lacks turning towards …pe… resolve,
10.2.2.8
no ca vata re vattabbe—
then indeed you should not say:
10.2.2.9
“sammāvācā maggo”ti.
“Right speech is the path.”
10.2.3.1
Sammākammanto …pe…
Is right action …pe…
10.2.3.2
sammāājīvo maggoti?
is right livelihood the path?
10.2.3.3
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.3.4
Sārammaṇo, atthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Does it have an object, does it have turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.3.5
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe…
It should not be said thus …pe…
10.2.3.6
nanu anārammaṇo, natthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Does it not lack an object, does it not lack turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.3.7
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.3.8
Hañci anārammaṇo, natthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhi;
If it lacks an object, lacks turning towards …pe… resolve,
10.2.3.9
no ca vata re vattabbe—
then indeed you should not say:
10.2.3.10
“sammāājīvo maggo”ti.
“Right livelihood is the path.”
10.2.4.1
Sammādiṭṭhi maggo, sā ca sārammaṇā, atthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Right view is the path, and does it have an object, does it have turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.4.2
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.4.3
Sammāvācā maggo, sā ca sārammaṇā, atthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Right speech is the path, and does it have an object, does it have turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.4.4
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe…
It should not be said thus …pe…
10.2.4.5
sammādiṭṭhi maggo, sā ca sārammaṇā, atthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Right view is the path, and does it have an object, does it have turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.4.6
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.4.7
Sammākammanto …pe…
Is right action …pe…
10.2.4.8
sammāājīvo maggo, so ca sārammaṇo, atthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
right livelihood is the path, and does it have an object, does it have turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.4.9
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe…
It should not be said thus …pe…
10.2.4.10
sammāsaṅkappo …pe…
Right intention …pe…
10.2.4.11
sammāvāyāmo …pe…
right effort …pe…
10.2.4.12
sammāsati …pe….
right mindfulness …pe….
10.2.5.1
Sammāsamādhi maggo, so ca sārammaṇo, atthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Right concentration is the path, and does it have an object, does it have turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.5.2
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.5.3
Sammāvācā maggo, sā ca sārammaṇā, atthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Right speech is the path, and does it have an object, does it have turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.5.4
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe…
It should not be said thus …pe…
10.2.5.5
sammāsamādhi maggo, so ca sārammaṇo, atthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
Right concentration is the path, and does it have an object, does it have turning towards …pe… resolve?
10.2.5.6
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.5.7
Sammākammanto …pe…
Right action …pe…
10.2.5.8
sammāājīvo maggo, so ca sārammaṇo, atthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
is right livelihood the path, and does it have an object; does it have advertence … [and so on] … resolve?
10.2.5.9
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….
It should not be said thus …
10.2.6.1
Sammāvācā maggo, sā ca anārammaṇā, natthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
is right speech the path, and is it objectless, having no advertence … [and so on] … resolve?
If you affirm the absence of these mental characteristics from those three factors of the Path, you must also affirm their absence from all these five factors of the Path.
10.2.6.2
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.6.3
Sammādiṭṭhi maggo, sā ca anārammaṇā, natthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
is right view the path, and is it objectless, having no advertence … [and so on] … resolve?
10.2.6.4
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe…
It should not be said thus …
10.2.6.5
sammāvācā maggo, sā ca anārammaṇā, natthi tāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
is right speech the path, and is it objectless, having no advertence … [and so on] … resolve?
10.2.6.6
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.6.7
Sammāsaṅkappo …pe…
is right thought …
10.2.6.8
sammāvāyāmo … sammāsati … sammāsamādhi maggo, so ca anārammaṇo, natthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
right effort … right mindfulness … right concentration the path, and is it objectless, having no advertence … [and so on] … resolve?
10.2.6.9
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….
It should not be said thus …
10.2.7.1
Sammākammanto …pe…
Right action …
10.2.7.2
sammāājīvo maggo, so ca anārammaṇo, natthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
is right livelihood the path, and is it objectless, having no advertence … [and so on] … resolve?
10.2.7.3
Āmantā.
Yes.
10.2.7.4
Sammādiṭṭhi … sammāsaṅkappo … sammāvāyāmo … sammāsati …pe…
is right view … right thought … right effort … right mindfulness …
10.2.7.5
sammāsamādhi maggo, so ca anārammaṇo, natthi tassa āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti?
right concentration the path, and is it objectless, having no advertence … [and so on] … resolve?
10.2.7.6
Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….
It should not be said thus …
10.2.8.1
Na vattabbaṃ—
Should it not be said:
Mahiṁsāsaka, Sammitiya, Mahāsaṅghika: But you admit that supremely right speech, action, and livelihood are factors of the Path, and these are manifestations of corporeality. Surely then the practiser's physical frame is included in the Path.
10.2.8.2
“maggasamaṅgissa rūpaṃ maggo”ti?
“For one endowed with the path, material form is the path”?
Mahiṁsāsaka, Sammitiya, Mahāsaṅghika: But you admit that supremely right speech, action, and livelihood are factors of the Path, and these are manifestations of corporeality. Surely then the practiser's physical frame is included in the Path.
10.2.8.3
Āmantā.
Yes.
Mahiṁsāsaka, Sammitiya, Mahāsaṅghika: But you admit that supremely right speech, action, and livelihood are factors of the Path, and these are manifestations of corporeality. Surely then the practiser's physical frame is included in the Path.
10.2.8.4
Nanu sammāvācā sammākammanto sammāājīvo maggoti?
Are not right speech, right action, and right livelihood the path?
Mahiṁsāsaka, Sammitiya, Mahāsaṅghika: But you admit that supremely right speech, action, and livelihood are factors of the Path, and these are manifestations of corporeality. Surely then the practiser's physical frame is included in the Path.
10.2.8.5
Āmantā.
Yes.
Mahiṁsāsaka, Sammitiya, Mahāsaṅghika: But you admit that supremely right speech, action, and livelihood are factors of the Path, and these are manifestations of corporeality. Surely then the practiser's physical frame is included in the Path.
10.2.8.6
Hañci sammāvācā sammākammanto sammāājīvo maggo, tena vata re vattabbe—
If right speech, right action, and right livelihood are the path, then indeed, sir, you should say:
Mahiṁsāsaka, Sammitiya, Mahāsaṅghika: But you admit that supremely right speech, action, and livelihood are factors of the Path, and these are manifestations of corporeality. Surely then the practiser's physical frame is included in the Path.
10.2.8.7
“maggasamaṅgissa rūpaṃ maggo”ti.
“For one endowed with the path, material form is the path.”
Mahiṁsāsaka, Sammitiya, Mahāsaṅghika: But you admit that supremely right speech, action, and livelihood are factors of the Path, and these are manifestations of corporeality. Surely then the practiser's physical frame is included in the Path.
10.2.8.8
Rūpaṃ maggotikathā niṭṭhitā.
The discussion on whether material form is the path is finished.
Translations (2)
- Points of Controversy, or Subjects of Discourse — Shwe Zan Aung & Caroline A. F. Rhys Davids 1915, English
- English (machine translation) — English, machine translation
Commentaries (2)
- Mūlaṭīkā — Ānanda (Vanaratana), Pāli
- Pañcappakaraṇaṭṭhakathā — Buddhaghosa, Pāli
Discussed in (1)
- Early Monastic Buddhism — Dutt 1941, English