Kathavatthu 2.7: Cittaṭṭhitikathā

2.7.1.1

Ekaṃ cittaṃ divasaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single consciousness persist for a day?

Controverted Point: That a single unit of consciousness lasts for a day.

2.7.1.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Controverted Point: That a single unit of consciousness lasts for a day.

2.7.1.3

Upaḍḍhadivaso uppādakkhaṇo, upaḍḍhadivaso vayakkhaṇoti?

Is half a day the moment of arising, and half a day the moment of cessation?

Theravādin: If your proposition is true, does one-half of the day belong to the “nascent moment”, and one-half to the “cessant moment”? You say no; but you have implied it. A similar admission is involved in affirming that a state of consciousness lasts two days, or four days or eight, ten, or twenty days, or a month, or two, four, eight, or ten months, or a year, or any number of years, or any number of æon ons.

2.7.1.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

2.7.2.1

Ekaṃ cittaṃ dve divase tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single consciousness persist for two days?

2.7.2.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

2.7.2.3

Divaso uppādakkhaṇo, divaso vayakkhaṇoti?

Is one day the moment of arising, and one day the moment of cessation?

2.7.2.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

2.7.3.1

Ekaṃ cittaṃ cattāro divase tiṭṭhati …

Does a single consciousness persist for four days …

2.7.3.2

aṭṭha divase tiṭṭhati …

persist for eight days …

2.7.3.3

dasa divase tiṭṭhati …

persist for ten days …

2.7.3.4

vīsati divase tiṭṭhati …

persist for twenty days …

2.7.3.5

māsaṃ tiṭṭhati …

persist for a month …

2.7.3.6

dve māse tiṭṭhati …

persist for two months …

2.7.3.7

cattāro māse tiṭṭhati …

persist for four months …

2.7.3.8

aṭṭha māse tiṭṭhati …

persist for eight months …

2.7.3.9

dasa māse tiṭṭhati …

persist for ten months …

2.7.3.10

saṃvaccharaṃ tiṭṭhati …

persist for a year …

2.7.3.11

dve vassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for two years …

2.7.3.12

cattāri vassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for four years …

2.7.3.13

aṭṭha vassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for eight years …

2.7.3.14

dasa vassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for ten years …

2.7.3.15

vīsati vassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for twenty years …

2.7.3.16

tiṃsa vassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for thirty years …

2.7.3.17

cattārīsa vassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for forty years …

2.7.3.18

paññāsa vassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for fifty years …

2.7.3.19

vassasataṃ tiṭṭhati …

persist for a hundred years …

2.7.3.20

dve vassasatāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for two hundred years …

2.7.3.21

cattāri vassasatāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for four hundred years …

2.7.3.22

pañca vassasatāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for five hundred years …

2.7.3.23

vassasahassaṃ tiṭṭhati …

persist for a thousand years …

2.7.3.24

dve vassasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for two thousand years …

2.7.3.25

cattāri vassasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for four thousand years …

2.7.3.26

aṭṭha vassasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for eight thousand years …

2.7.3.27

soḷasa vassasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for sixteen thousand years …

2.7.3.28

kappaṃ tiṭṭhati …

persist for an eon …

2.7.3.29

dve kappe tiṭṭhati …

persist for two eons …

2.7.3.30

cattāro kappe tiṭṭhati …

persist for four eons …

2.7.3.31

aṭṭha kappe tiṭṭhati …

persist for eight eons …

2.7.3.32

soḷasa kappe tiṭṭhati …

persist for sixteen eons …

2.7.3.33

bāttiṃsa kappe tiṭṭhati …

persist for thirty-two eons …

2.7.3.34

catusaṭṭhi kappe tiṭṭhati …

persist for sixty-four eons …

2.7.3.35

pañca kappasatāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for five hundred eons …

2.7.3.36

kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for a thousand eons …

2.7.3.37

dve kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for two thousand eons …

2.7.3.38

cattāri kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for four thousand eons …

2.7.3.39

aṭṭha kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for eight thousand eons …

2.7.3.40

soḷasa kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for sixteen thousand eons …

2.7.3.41

vīsati kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for twenty thousand eons …

2.7.3.42

cattārīsa kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for forty thousand eons …

2.7.3.43

saṭṭhi kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persist for sixty thousand eons …

2.7.3.44

caturāsīti kappasahassāni tiṭṭhatīti?

persist for eighty-four thousand eons?

2.7.3.45

Āmantā.

Yes.

2.7.3.46

Dvecattārīsa kappasahassāni uppādakkhaṇo, dvecattārīsa kappasahassāni vayakkhaṇoti?

Are forty-two thousand eons the moment of arising, and forty-two thousand eons the moment of cessation?

2.7.3.47

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

2.7.4.1

Ekaṃ cittaṃ divasaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single mind endure for a day?

Are there other phenomena beside mind which arise and cease many times during one day? Yes, you say? Then do you contend that they come and go as quickly as mind? If you say no, then your proposition falls. If you say they do, was it not said by the Exalted One:

2.7.4.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

2.7.4.3

Atthaññe dhammā ekāhaṃ bahumpi uppajjitvā nirujjhantīti?

Are there other phenomena that arise and cease many times in one day?

2.7.4.4

Āmantā.

Yes.

2.7.4.5

Te dhammā cittena lahuparivattāti?

Do those phenomena change more quickly than mind?

2.7.4.6

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

2.7.5.1

Te dhammā cittena lahuparivattāti?

Do those phenomena change more quickly than mind?

2.7.5.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

2.7.5.3

Nanu vuttaṃ bhagavatā—

Was it not said by the Blessed One:

“I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as mind. It is not easy to find a simile to show how quickly mind comes and goes”?

2.7.5.4

“nāhaṃ, bhikkhave, aññaṃ ekadhammampi samanupassāmi evaṃ lahuparivattaṃ yathayidaṃ cittaṃ.

“Monks, I do not see any single phenomenon that changes so quickly as this mind.

“I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as mind. It is not easy to find a simile to show how quickly mind comes and goes”?

2.7.5.5

Yāvañcidaṃ, bhikkhave, upamāpi na sukarā yāva lahuparivattaṃ cittan”ti.

To such an extent, monks, that even a simile is not easy [to make] for how quickly the mind changes”?

“I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as mind. It is not easy to find a simile to show how quickly mind comes and goes”?

2.7.5.6

Attheva suttantoti?

Is there such a discourse?

“I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as mind. It is not easy to find a simile to show how quickly mind comes and goes”?

2.7.5.7

Āmantā.

Yes.

“I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as mind. It is not easy to find a simile to show how quickly mind comes and goes”?

2.7.5.8

Tena hi na vattabbaṃ—

Then it should not be said:

“I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as mind. It is not easy to find a simile to show how quickly mind comes and goes”?

2.7.5.9

“te dhammā cittena lahuparivattā”ti.

“Those phenomena change more quickly than mind.”

“I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as mind. It is not easy to find a simile to show how quickly mind comes and goes”?

2.7.6.1

Te dhammā cittena lahuparivattāti?

Do those phenomena change more quickly than mind?

Again:

2.7.6.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Again:

2.7.6.3

Nanu vuttaṃ bhagavatā—

Was it not said by the Blessed One:

Again:

2.7.6.4

“seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, makkaṭo araññe pavane caramāno sākhaṃ gaṇhati, taṃ muñcitvā aññaṃ gaṇhati, taṃ muñcitvā aññaṃ gaṇhati;

“Just as, monks, a monkey moving about in a dense forest takes hold of a branch, releases it and takes hold of another, releases that and takes hold of another;

“Just as a monkey faring through the dense forest catches one bough, and, letting it go, catches another, and then another, even so, bhikkhus, with what is called thought, or mind, or consciousness, by day as by night, one arises when another perishes”?

2.7.6.5

evameva kho, bhikkhave, yamidaṃ vuccati cittaṃ itipi mano itipi viññāṇaṃ itipi taṃ rattiyā ca divasassa ca aññadeva uppajjati aññaṃ nirujjhatī”ti.

just so, monks, that which is called ‘mind,’ or ‘mental organ,’ or ‘consciousness,’ arises as one and ceases as another throughout the night and the day”?

“Just as a monkey faring through the dense forest catches one bough, and, letting it go, catches another, and then another, even so, bhikkhus, with what is called thought, or mind, or consciousness, by day as by night, one arises when another perishes”?

2.7.6.6

Attheva suttantoti?

Is there such a discourse?

“Just as a monkey faring through the dense forest catches one bough, and, letting it go, catches another, and then another, even so, bhikkhus, with what is called thought, or mind, or consciousness, by day as by night, one arises when another perishes”?

2.7.6.7

Āmantā.

Yes.

“Just as a monkey faring through the dense forest catches one bough, and, letting it go, catches another, and then another, even so, bhikkhus, with what is called thought, or mind, or consciousness, by day as by night, one arises when another perishes”?

2.7.6.8

Tena hi na vattabbaṃ—

Then it should not be said:

“Just as a monkey faring through the dense forest catches one bough, and, letting it go, catches another, and then another, even so, bhikkhus, with what is called thought, or mind, or consciousness, by day as by night, one arises when another perishes”?

2.7.6.9

“te dhammā cittena lahuparivattā”ti.

“Those phenomena change more quickly than mind.”

“Just as a monkey faring through the dense forest catches one bough, and, letting it go, catches another, and then another, even so, bhikkhus, with what is called thought, or mind, or consciousness, by day as by night, one arises when another perishes”?

2.7.7.1

Ekaṃ cittaṃ divasaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single mind endure for a day?

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.3

Cakkhuviññāṇaṃ divasaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does eye-consciousness endure for a day?

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.5

Sotaviññāṇaṃ …pe…

Does ear-consciousness … [and so on] …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.6

ghānaviññāṇaṃ …

nose-consciousness …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.7

jivhāviññāṇaṃ …

tongue-consciousness …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.8

kāyaviññāṇaṃ …

body-consciousness …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.9

akusalaṃ cittaṃ …

unwholesome mind …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.10

rāgasahagataṃ …

accompanied by lust …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.11

dosasahagataṃ …

accompanied by hatred …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.12

mohasahagataṃ …

accompanied by delusion …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.13

mānasahagataṃ …

accompanied by conceit …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.14

diṭṭhisahagataṃ …

accompanied by wrong view …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.15

vicikicchāsahagataṃ …

accompanied by doubt …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.16

thinasahagataṃ …

accompanied by sloth …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.17

uddhaccasahagataṃ …

accompanied by restlessness …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.18

ahirikasahagataṃ …

accompanied by shamelessness …

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.19

anottappasahagataṃ cittaṃ divasaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

does a mind accompanied by fearlessness of wrongdoing endure for a day?

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.7.20

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus … [and so on] ….

Take the content of a state of consciousness: does any visual consciousness or other sense-consciousness last a whole day, or any bad thought, such as consciousness accompanied by passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, or indiscretion? If not, then neither can consciousness be said to last a day.

2.7.8.1

Ekaṃ cittaṃ divasaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single mind endure for a day?

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.3

Yeneva cittena cakkhunā rūpaṃ passati, teneva cittena sotena saddaṃ suṇāti …pe…

With the very mind by which one sees a material form with the eye, does one with that same mind hear a sound with the ear … [and so on] …

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.4

ghānena gandhaṃ ghāyati …

smell an odor with the nose …

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.5

jivhāya rasaṃ sāyati …

taste a flavor with the tongue …

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.6

kāyena phoṭṭhabbaṃ phusati …

touch a tangible object with the body …

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.7

manasā dhammaṃ vijānāti …pe…

cognize a mental phenomenon with the mind … [and so on] …

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.8

yeneva cittena manasā dhammaṃ vijānāti, teneva cittena cakkhunā rūpaṃ passati …pe…

with the very mind by which one cognizes a mental phenomenon with the mind, does one with that same mind see a material form with the eye … [and so on] …

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.9

sotena saddaṃ suṇāti …

hear a sound with the ear …

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.10

ghānena gandhaṃ ghāyati …

smell an odor with the nose …

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.11

jivhāya rasaṃ sāyati …pe…

taste a flavor with the tongue … [and so on] …

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.12

kāyena phoṭṭhabbaṃ phusatīti?

touch a tangible object with the body?

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.8.13

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus … [and so on] ….

Does one hear, smell, taste, touch, apprehend mentally by means of the same unit of consciousness as one sees? Or see, hear, etc., or touch by means of the same unit of consciousness as one apprehends mentally? You say “no”. Then you cannot affirm that one and the same unit of consciousness lasts a whole day.

2.7.9.1

Ekaṃ cittaṃ divasaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single mind endure for a day?

Similarly, if you deny that one moves backward with the same unit of consciousness as one moves forward, and vice versa, you cannot affirm your proposition. A similar argument applies to looking backward, looking forward, and to bending, extending by means of the same unit of consciousness.

2.7.9.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Similarly, if you deny that one moves backward with the same unit of consciousness as one moves forward, and vice versa, you cannot affirm your proposition. A similar argument applies to looking backward, looking forward, and to bending, extending by means of the same unit of consciousness.

2.7.9.3

Yeneva cittena abhikkamati, teneva cittena paṭikkamati;

Does one step forward with the very same mind with which one steps back;

Similarly, if you deny that one moves backward with the same unit of consciousness as one moves forward, and vice versa, you cannot affirm your proposition. A similar argument applies to looking backward, looking forward, and to bending, extending by means of the same unit of consciousness.

2.7.9.4

yeneva cittena paṭikkamati, teneva cittena abhikkamati;

does one step back with the very same mind with which one steps forward;

Similarly, if you deny that one moves backward with the same unit of consciousness as one moves forward, and vice versa, you cannot affirm your proposition. A similar argument applies to looking backward, looking forward, and to bending, extending by means of the same unit of consciousness.

2.7.9.5

yeneva cittena āloketi, teneva cittena viloketi;

does one look ahead with the very same mind with which one looks aside;

Similarly, if you deny that one moves backward with the same unit of consciousness as one moves forward, and vice versa, you cannot affirm your proposition. A similar argument applies to looking backward, looking forward, and to bending, extending by means of the same unit of consciousness.

2.7.9.6

yeneva cittena viloketi, teneva cittena āloketi;

does one look aside with the very same mind with which one looks ahead;

Similarly, if you deny that one moves backward with the same unit of consciousness as one moves forward, and vice versa, you cannot affirm your proposition. A similar argument applies to looking backward, looking forward, and to bending, extending by means of the same unit of consciousness.

2.7.9.7

yeneva cittena samiñjeti, teneva cittena pasāreti;

does one bend [a limb] with the very same mind with which one stretches it out;

Similarly, if you deny that one moves backward with the same unit of consciousness as one moves forward, and vice versa, you cannot affirm your proposition. A similar argument applies to looking backward, looking forward, and to bending, extending by means of the same unit of consciousness.

2.7.9.8

yeneva cittena pasāreti, teneva cittena samiñjetīti?

does one stretch [it] out with the very same mind with which one bends it?

Similarly, if you deny that one moves backward with the same unit of consciousness as one moves forward, and vice versa, you cannot affirm your proposition. A similar argument applies to looking backward, looking forward, and to bending, extending by means of the same unit of consciousness.

2.7.9.9

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus …

Similarly, if you deny that one moves backward with the same unit of consciousness as one moves forward, and vice versa, you cannot affirm your proposition. A similar argument applies to looking backward, looking forward, and to bending, extending by means of the same unit of consciousness.

2.7.10.1

Ākāsānañcāyatanūpagānaṃ devānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ yāvatāyukaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single mind of the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space last for the whole duration of their life?

In the case of the devas who have reached the realm of space-infinity, does any unit of consciousness last their whole lifetime? You affirm it does, yet you deny a similar duration in the case of humanity. You deny it also in the case of all devas of the plane of sense-desires, and of all devas of the higher or Rūpa plane, why not of those of the first-named non-Rūpa plane?

2.7.10.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

2.7.10.3

Manussānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ yāvatāyukaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single mind of human beings last for the whole duration of their life?

2.7.10.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

2.7.11.1

Ākāsānañcāyatanūpagānaṃ devānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ yāvatāyukaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single mind of the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space last for the whole duration of their life?

2.7.11.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

2.7.11.3

Cātumahārājikānaṃ devānaṃ …pe…

Of the gods of the Four Great Kings …

2.7.11.4

tāvatiṃsānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the Tāvatiṃsa gods …

2.7.11.5

yāmānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the Yāma gods …

2.7.11.6

tusitānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the Tusita gods …

2.7.11.7

nimmānaratīnaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods who delight in creation …

2.7.11.8

paranimmitavasavattīnaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods who exercise control over the creations of others …

2.7.11.9

brahmapārisajjānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of Brahmā's retinue …

2.7.11.10

brahmapurohitānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of Brahmā's ministers …

2.7.11.11

mahābrahmānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of the Great Brahmās …

2.7.11.12

parittābhānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of limited radiance …

2.7.11.13

appamāṇābhānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of immeasurable radiance …

2.7.11.14

ābhassarānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of streaming radiance …

2.7.11.15

parittasubhānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of limited beauty …

2.7.11.16

appamāṇasubhānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of immeasurable beauty …

2.7.11.17

subhakiṇhānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of refulgent beauty …

2.7.11.18

vehapphalānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the gods of abundant fruit …

2.7.11.19

avihānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the Aviha gods …

2.7.11.20

atappānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the Atappa gods …

2.7.11.21

sudassānaṃ devānaṃ …

of the Sudassa gods …

2.7.11.22

sudassīnaṃ devānaṃ …

of the Sudassī gods …

2.7.11.23

akaniṭṭhānaṃ devānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ yāvatāyukaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

does a single mind of the Akaniṭṭha gods last for the whole duration of their life?

2.7.11.24

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

2.7.12.1

Ākāsānañcāyatanūpagānaṃ devānaṃ vīsati kappasahassāni āyuppamāṇaṃ, ākāsānañcāyatanūpagānaṃ devānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ vīsati kappasahassāni tiṭṭhatīti?

The life span of the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space is twenty thousand eons; does a single mind of the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space last for twenty thousand eons?

You affirm, I say, this duration of a unit of consciousness during the 20,000 æon ons of the Arūpa-deva's life, yet you deny an analogous duration in a unit of human consciousness, lasting, say, for 100 years, and you deny it in the case of all those devas of the Kāmaloka and Rūpaloka, whose lifetime varies from 500 years in the Four Great Kings to 16,000 æon ons of years in the senior devas.

2.7.12.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

2.7.12.3

Manussānaṃ vassasataṃ āyuppamāṇaṃ, manussānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ vassasataṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

The life span of human beings is a hundred years; does a single mind of human beings last for a hundred years?

2.7.12.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

2.7.13.1

Ākāsānañcāyatanūpagānaṃ devānaṃ vīsati kappasahassāni āyuppamāṇaṃ, ākāsānañcāyatanūpagānaṃ devānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ vīsati kappasahassāni tiṭṭhatīti?

The life span of the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space is twenty thousand eons; does a single mind of the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space last for twenty thousand eons?

2.7.13.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

2.7.13.3

Cātumahārājikānaṃ devānaṃ pañca vassasatāni āyuppamāṇaṃ, cātumahārājikānaṃ devānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ pañca vassasatāni tiṭṭhati …

The life span of the gods of the Four Great Kings is five hundred years; does a single mind of the gods of the Four Great Kings last for five hundred years …

2.7.13.4

vassasahassaṃ tiṭṭhati …

does it last for a thousand years …

2.7.13.5

dve vassasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

does it last for two thousand years …

2.7.13.6

cattāri vassasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

does it last for four thousand years …

2.7.13.7

aṭṭha vassasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

does it last for eight thousand years …

2.7.13.8

soḷasa vassasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

does it last for sixteen thousand years …

2.7.13.9

kappassa tatiyabhāgaṃ tiṭṭhati …

does it last for a third of an eon …

2.7.13.10

upaḍḍhakappaṃ tiṭṭhati …

does it last for half an eon …

2.7.13.11

ekaṃ kappaṃ tiṭṭhati …

does it last for one eon …

2.7.13.12

dve kappe tiṭṭhati …

does it last for two eons …

2.7.13.13

cattāro kappe tiṭṭhati …

does it last for four eons …

2.7.13.14

aṭṭha kappe tiṭṭhati …

does it last for eight eons …

2.7.13.15

soḷasa kappe tiṭṭhati …

does it last for sixteen eons …

2.7.13.16

bāttiṃsa kappe tiṭṭhati …

does it last for thirty-two eons …

2.7.13.17

catusaṭṭhi kappe tiṭṭhati …

does it last for sixty-four eons …

2.7.13.18

pañca kappasatāni tiṭṭhati …

does it last for five hundred eons …

2.7.13.19

kappasahassaṃ tiṭṭhati …

does it last for a thousand eons …

2.7.13.20

dve kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

does it last for two thousand eons …

2.7.13.21

cattāri kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

Does it endure for four thousand aeons …

2.7.13.22

aṭṭha kappasahassāni tiṭṭhati …

persists for eight thousand aeons …

2.7.13.23

akaniṭṭhānaṃ devānaṃ soḷasa kappasahassāni āyuppamāṇaṃ, akaniṭṭhānaṃ devānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ soḷasa kappasahassāni tiṭṭhatīti?

If the lifespan of the gods of the Akaniṭṭha realm is sixteen thousand aeons, does a single mind of the gods of the Akaniṭṭha realm persist for sixteen thousand aeons?

2.7.13.24

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

2.7.14.1

Ākāsānañcāyatanūpagānaṃ devānaṃ cittaṃ muhuttaṃ muhuttaṃ uppajjati muhuttaṃ muhuttaṃ nirujjhatīti?

Does the mind of the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space arise moment by moment and cease moment by moment?

Andhaka: Does then the mind of the devas who have reached the plane of space-infinity arise and cease moment by moment?

2.7.14.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Theravādin: It does.

2.7.14.3

Ākāsānañcāyatanūpagā devā muhuttaṃ muhuttaṃ cavanti muhuttaṃ muhuttaṃ uppajjantīti?

Do the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space pass away moment by moment and arise moment by moment?

Andhaka: But do these devas themselves decease, and are they reborn moment by moment?

2.7.14.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe.

It should not be said thus.

Theravādin: Nay, that cannot truly be said.

2.7.15.1

Ākāsānañcāyatanūpagānaṃ devānaṃ ekaṃ cittaṃ yāvatāyukaṃ tiṭṭhatīti?

Does a single mind of the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space persist for the length of their lifespan?

Theravādin: But if you affirm that in the case of these devas a unit of consciousness lasts as long as they live, then you must also admit that they die with the same unit of consciousness as that wherewith they are reborn; but you are not prepared to admit this … .

2.7.15.2

Āmantā.

Yes.

Theravādin: But if you affirm that in the case of these devas a unit of consciousness lasts as long as they live, then you must also admit that they die with the same unit of consciousness as that wherewith they are reborn; but you are not prepared to admit this … .

2.7.15.3

Ākāsānañcāyatanūpagā devā yeneva cittena uppajjanti, teneva cittena cavantīti?

Do the gods who have attained the sphere of infinite space pass away with the very same mind with which they arise?

Theravādin: But if you affirm that in the case of these devas a unit of consciousness lasts as long as they live, then you must also admit that they die with the same unit of consciousness as that wherewith they are reborn; but you are not prepared to admit this … .

2.7.15.4

Na hevaṃ vattabbe …pe….

It should not be said thus … and so forth …

Theravādin: But if you affirm that in the case of these devas a unit of consciousness lasts as long as they live, then you must also admit that they die with the same unit of consciousness as that wherewith they are reborn; but you are not prepared to admit this … .

2.7.15.5

Cittaṭṭhitikathā niṭṭhitā.

Discussion on the duration of consciousness is finished.